The type of correction one uses on a dog for sheepherding really depends on the dog/circumstances etc. What many people don't understand is that it is not really about physical force to get your dog to do what you want but about a 'mental' connection you have with your dog.

I seldom resort to throwing my stick as it seldom works for the dogs I work. The stock stick is a tool the 'shepherd' has to help show 'direction' to a dog and a visable one. It is an 'extention' of the hand/arm. Using it as a 'correction' tool is common and....often a 'shortcut' to get a dog to do what you want without more training etc. A real stock stick will often have a neck grip or leg grip on the end. In actuallity they were used to help the shepherd(person) work with/control/grab the sheep when needed. I use one with a leg grip as well as the neck grip. It is a very practical tool. I often have one of my shepherds working the flock in a small graze while I doworm the sheep one by one. I use my stock stick to grab the leg of the lamb/sheep, then get a hold of them and then deworm them.
In trials the stock stick is a tool to help the handler to directd the dog/sheep etc. It is NEVER used as a correction.

I work/own both german shepherds and a border collie. ALL have very high attraction to sheep and a love for the work. Some of the dogs need a 'larger' correction than others. I have on occastion used my stick to give a light 'tap' on the nose of the dog to remind them they are too close to the stock and to get back. Using the stick as the ONLY tool to control the dog is not going to work in the long run.


I have not used an E collar for training sheep herding but I am not opposed to it. It would depend on the dog, the circumstance I am using it etc. I think it can be a tool to help correct bad behaviour with some dogs....or to encourage 'good' behaviour.

The whistle is used to give the dog direction NOT correction.

Generally, many dogs grip initially on sheep. I don't 'sweat' it depending again on the dog, circumstance etc. Most of these grips are done out of frustration and because they 'can'. Many are actually done out of 'fear' vs controlling the stock. Some are just 'cheap shots'. Sometimes the grip is NEEDED! So, you don't want to take it totally 'out' of a dog, this is a mistake!! You just want to control it!!! SHeep are NOT stupid and will know very quickly if a dog 'can' and 'will' back up what they are asking the sheep to do. Take the grip TOTALLY out of the dog and the sheep will know very quickly that it won't back up what it is asking. Many dogs will never have to use a grip as they have a real presence with the stock. Others may not.

Some sheep absolutely will need a grip to move period. This is 'unusual' but it happens. Usually they are very 'spoiled' sheep or 'harrassed' sheep.

I know my border collie will grip when needed...and he likes to do it so will often 'choose' this when a sheep is 'standing him down'. Having said that I am also teaching him some patience and 'power' through his eye without gripping. It is amazing to me to watch a dog contront stock with thier 'eye' and have them move off this pressure without a grip. I have seen it with other breeds as well (gsd/rotti/kelpie etc).

Not sure if I have been helpful...too bad you don't live closer. You will find MANY varying opinions and teaching tecniques out there with different trainers. A few years back, the E collar was actually quite popular with some border collie trainers and using them. It was kind of a 'fad' for a bit. There were seminars on how to use it with sheep herding.

It would seem that way to me, too. But the e-collars are not allowed in the trials and many trainers don't allow them either. There are several explanations as to why they aren't allowed in training, but none of the explanations I've heard make any sense to me.

THANK YOU. This is my first attempt at a forum and you've been more helpful than ever I expected. Do any of you know of a trainer in the Northern Virginia-Southern Maryland area who will permit training with an e-collar?

I know there are several folks in Virginia who are very active in training and trialing working Border Collies. Here is the link to the Virginia Border Collie Association . Check out the calendar page for a list of contacts.

I wouldn't decide on a trainer by whether or not they'd let you use an e-collar though. Rather look for one who will work with you in a manner that best suits your dog. An experienced trainer will have worked with a variety of different dogs, and have a good feel on what will help the dog be successful. And be able to explain why to you. Do explain why you feel an e-collar would be helpful, just don't use it as a litmus test!

Good Luck!

I've talked with these people. One of them is the person who threw the stick at the not-very-misbehaving dog. She will not discuss the e-collar at all -- said that if I brought it up she would not train my dog. Another of them will not allow an e-collar on his property. In other words -- they refuse to listen to the explanation. I'm not insisting on the use of an e-collar. In fact, I just found a trainer who won't use one, but she also has acceptable alternatives. The only problem there is distance -- it's close to a three-hour drive.