I have a 14 month old - belgian malinois. He was given to me from a kennel and they did not abuse the dog in any way but just ignored him while they were training other dogs. When here at the house (in surroundings he is aware of)his drive is enormous. His prey drive is huge. He never removes his eyes from the prey regardless of what goes on around him. I have taken him out to as many public places as much as i can (parks, stores, etc) for the last several months and he is very timid when out. His tail is tucked and shows all signs of being scared. How do i fix this? I have tried the "treat being thrown when he pulls" I have tried other tatics and all to no avail. Thanks for any advice

at that age alot is already programed in his mind. Just keep taking him out and let him work threw his problems. Mals are dogs with brains and have to think and work out their problems,not like some breeds that are just block heads and nothing seems to bother them. you may never be able to get a secure confident dog in some situations out of him but you can still bring out the best in him. or he may just be at the age where they act timid and leary of things that never bothered them before. I think he is a little old for that but I have my first Mal now and am learning lots as we go.

Can the dog be put into drive outside your house? Any response to toys in the park for example? Is the dog food motivated? What about quiet areas just outside your home, vs busy streets? Any difference in attitiude? Touch more info might be help get some suggestions from others flowing....

Also, how long have you had the dog?

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I have tried the "treat being thrown when he pulls" I have tried other tatics and all to no avail.

I am not sure what this tactic is? Maybe someone else does...

Cheers,

Yes my dog has a drive that none of the my other 5 have ever had. If he had this drive outside the bounds of my house and yard thre would be no keeping him down. When we are home and I bring his regular toy out he is crazy.

Alot of people have suggestd that when a dog is timid if you will take treats and throw him treats when he pulls away and yell treat that it will break his timidity, I even seen the tactic on Cesear Malian (ever the spelling) and it does not work for this dog.

At the park he will carry his toy around but will not focus on it much. His tail is continually tucked regardless of how much rubbing and comfort I give him.

I had a rescue Catahoula (another tenacious, high-drive breed) who was like this. He was from a neglect situation but was never hit or physically abused. He came into rescue at 8 months of age. He is now 2 years old and in his adoptive home and he is still a timid dog. I think that dogs need socialization when they are pups of a certain age, after that it is too late. Ed seems to think a part of this behaviour could be breeding also.

There are things you can do to help this dog, but you must understand he may never be 100%. He will not perform as well as a socialized dog.

Number one thing DO NOT EVER "rub and comfort" a fearful dog. In his mind this soft talking is praise and you are telling him he is right to be afraid, so there must be something to be scared of!

I have personally had the best success with having the dog "model" me or another dog. The dog looks to the owner when it is uncertain of what to do. If the owner reassures the dog, it thinks there is something to be afraid of, and it thinks the owner is uncertain too. But if the owner ignores the dog, and acts confident, the dog will pick up on this. It is also helpful if you have another dog, or a friend with a dog, who is calm and laid back to serve as a model for the fearful dog.

Another technique is "flooding" where you take him into situations where he is fearful (parking lots, etc) several times a day, so that this event/place becomes common place for him (yawn).

I had my fearful Catahoula (a foster dog) for 10.5 months before he was adopted and he had improved a LOT. A book I have heard that helps, but I did not personally read, is "The Cautious Canine" by Patricia Connell (sp?)

Hope this helps

 Quote: john coble

...Alot of people have suggestd that when a dog is timid if you will take treats and throw him treats when he pulls away and yell treat that it will break his timidity, I even seen the tactic on Cesear Malian (ever the spelling) and it does not work for this dog.

Wow, absolutely wrong thing to do. A treat is a reward. So according to what you've done: dog pulls away, you reward. Hate to say it, but you're imprinting and rewarding the timidity. I doubt Cesar has done this, maybe you misunderstood something you saw him do. If he does this, I completely disagree with him.

Remember reward (treats) equals "good boy". Never reward behavior that you don't want. In the dog's mind, you're not refocusing him or breaking his concentration on his timidity, you're rewarding and reinforcing the timidity.

 Quote: john coble

At the park he will carry his toy around but will not focus on it much. His tail is continually tucked regardless of how much rubbing and comfort I give him.

Again, petting, which is a reward, also equals "good boy". Wrong thing to do when he's displaying fear.

Ignore his fear and don't get apprehensive when he shows it. Walk confidently with the attitude that you have the most confident dog in the world. Start off slow. Don't go to the busiest places you can find at first. As his confidence builds in only slightly stressful places (a walk around the block, an EMPTY parking lot, empty park, etc), then you can progress him to the next level of stress, like a park with a couple of people there, a parking lot with a few cars, etc.

This is the opposite of the "flooding" method that was posted, and is what I would do. Whenever your dog wants to check something out at any of these places, sniff or gets playful or whatever then that's the time to reward with petting and treats.

He's got a great chance at getting over this fear. Just don't do what you've been doing with the treats and petting at the wrong time.

 Quote: John Coble

Alot of people have suggestd that when a dog is timid if you will take treats and throw him treats when he pulls away and yell treat that it will break his timidity,

There has to be something we're missing here...... Just to be clear, you are saying that you toss him treats when he is shying away?

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: john coble

Alot of people have suggestd that when a dog is timid if you will take treats and throw him treats when he pulls away and yell treat that it will break his timidity,

There has to be something we're missing here...... Just to be clear, you are saying that you toss him treats when he is shying away?

I interpreted the initial post about pulling away, as the dog actually "pulls" and is treated for asserting itself, which in its case *would* be a good thing, but perhaps I interpreted wrong. I went on to think though that treating for something like that may cause problems with fuss or heel, but yes, I agree, please OP, describe what you mean. I cannot imagine Cesar doing something off base...

Okay,

So your dog has great focus on the toy at home and will carry it around in the park. Now, what happens if you throw the ball, or do drive buiding with the toy in the park? Any interest in the toy?

Will the dog eat treats outside (I am not talking about if you throw a treat when scared). If you are walking with the dog and you say 'look' will the dog look at you and then accept a reward?

What happens if you run around like and idiot in the park with the dog's ball? Will the dog chase you for the toy? (dog on long line)

I am just trying to think if there is anyway to put the dog in drive to help it forget it is scared?

I am for the slow and positive approach. Start in the front yard, then around the block, then to the same park all the time and then increasing your circle from there with two baby steps forward and one baby step back kinda thing. Progress may be painfully slow.

I would want to find a game that you play at home with the dog (super fun high reward ob, search for toy, short and snappy tracks..) I would play it a bunch at home and then try it in the front yard. Make it short and fun!!! End with something fun and successful.

As the dog can play for a few minutes out side the yard without being scared, I would stop playing the super fun game at home so much and just play it when you go out. Maybe then the dog will look forward to playing that special game?

Once the dog can play the fun game in a few places for a few minutes you could increase the time before and after the game a bit at a time in the location the dog associates with something positive?

THese are all just ideas, you may have already tried. I just think you might be able to capitalize on that play drive somehow?

I also would not pet and comfort the dog when scared, but would like to distract it. If the dog pulled away scared, I would want to distract the dog and get it to focus on me and then reward that focus or a simple ob command. Or better yet, anticipate the dog getting scared and ask for attention or a simple command first and reward the heck out of it!

Just throwing ideas out there in case you find some hope! Maybe others that have delt with this could help too.

One thing I noticed when you said you pet him and comfort him. If you give him affection and tell him it is ok and comfort him while he is acting timid all you will do is reinforce being timid. Work on building confidence. I saw something in Ed's article about that. It will also help securing the leadership position even for a timid dog. The more confidence he has in you as his pack leader the more confidence he will build.Getting him to focus on you more will also help distract him from being timid. I have worked with many rescued dogs that have had some really bad insecurety problems and you have to pretty much let them work through it themselves and be very patient.