I was just thinking a lot of people have diffrent views on this and train there dogs to bite diffrent areas. Some think dogs should switch from arm to arm depending on what the decoy does and then there is the bite and hold.

As far as my dog goes if the decoy is running away he bites the back in between the shoulder blades. If the decoy is charging my dog he either hits the chest or the armpit area. And of course he will go for the arm if you present it.

As far as why my dog bites where he does, i like how he bites on the back because i would like to imagain that it would cause the suspect to do a face plant. And for the decoy charging my dog i dont do this to much i dont want him to hurt his neck i do it just to proof my dog make sure he wont back down (only done it twice) so he bites where he wants to pretty much.

So, where does your dog bite? Also why does he bite there, why do you like him biting there?

Untill resently lower leg the one closest to him. We are in the process off putting him "in the arm". Where his target is the arm left or right depends on the "availability"

greetings

Johan

Ah hello Johan,

I was hopeing someone was going to reply to this.

First off why the switch? Is he a younger dog and is now able to jump up higher? I know in a real bite situation that no matter where the dog bites if it is a good bite the suspect will be going down but i am not a fan of leg bites.. i don't like how the decoy has completely free movement of his/her arms.

Yes i agree, every dog should bite the first available limb or area. You don't want your dog running around the decoy/suspect waiting to get the sweet spot.

Edited by Michael West (08/23/2007 03:38 AM)
Edit reason: forgot some words...

Basic training nvbk is for the leg. In function of the dog you can deside to go to the arm.

A dog that is to fast will be put in the arm (safety of the dog)
A dog that is uncertain will be put in the arm
If the dog looks upwards during the bite he will be put into the arm etc.

My dog indecated early on that he was better in the arm than in the leg but each time (twice) we decided to go for this it became clear, after some months of training, that he didn't understand what was wanted from him. His bite was excellent but on inpact he wouldn't rest on the decoy with his front paws but would use his weight to pull him down. So although his bitework was better it was impossible to train correct with him. further more he would go for the leg even if you presented the arm in front of the leg. Last month i mentionned this to our new decoy and he tried it. Same result as ever the dog went around the arm and for the leg. At the end of the training we were goofing around and the dog went for the arm. Excelent grip, full of confidence and he stood with his front paws on the decoy. At that time we made a difficult decission. We were going to re-train the dog in the arm. You have to know that this dog was already in competition and although we had a setback there was still a possibility to go to the championship cat 3. The decission was made on the estimation of an average score for the dog. In the leg this would be 340-350/400 whereas with the way he went in during the arm bites it would be probably 25/30 points higher. So more chances of scoring high in the championship next year

Greetings

Johan

Johan,

 Quote: Johan Engelen

A dog that is uncertain will be put in the arm

I must say i have never heard of this.

 Quote: Johan Engelen

My dog indecated early on that he was better in the arm than in the leg but each time (twice) we decided to go for this it became clear, after some months of training, that he didn't understand what was wanted from him. His bite was excellent but on inpact he wouldn't rest on the decoy with his front paws but would use his weight to pull him down. So although his bitework was better it was impossible to train correct with him. further more he would go for the leg even if you presented the arm in front of the leg. Last month i mentionned this to our new decoy and he tried it. Same result as ever the dog went around the arm and for the leg. At the end of the training we were goofing around and the dog went for the arm. Excelent grip, full of confidence and he stood with his front paws on the decoy. At that time we made a difficult decission. We were going to re-train the dog in the arm. You have to know that this dog was already in competition and although we had a setback there was still a possibility to go to the championship cat 3. The decission was made on the estimation of an average score for the dog. In the leg this would be 340-350/400 whereas with the way he went in during the arm bites it would be probably 25/30 points higher. So more chances of scoring high in the championship next year

Greetings

Johan

I will freely admit i don't know to much if anything about sports. I work with a MWD (military working dog) so i always look at whats more practical before anything else. Its intresting how much he likes the leg more then the arm. Seems like your going to have a hard time training the dog to go for the arm if he will avoid it to get to the legs.

Well good luck re-training him. With that kind of drive for the legs then is deffently not going to be a easy task.

Do you already have a plan on how to train him like this?

A leg bite is more impressive for the dog than an arm bite. try lying on the ground and looking up at your adversary. Some dogs can handle this and some aren't that sure of themself. so thoes dogs are put in the arm.

And for how to train it.

easy. By only presenting him the arm to bite. legs are hidden behind an obstacle and the arm is presented and even put in his mouth. When he is sent he knows he has to bite. untill he gets it. attacks are done on a long line to help the dog.

And he is much faster and harderhitting on the arm. We"re getting there. To fully re-train a dog you need 3 to 4 months.

Greetings

Johan

 Quote: johan engelen

A leg bite is more impressive for the dog than an arm bite. try lying on the ground and looking up at your adversary. Some dogs can handle this and some aren't that sure of themself. so thoes dogs are put in the arm.

I guess for sports, but i will take a high biteing dog any day over a low biteing one :-D

 Quote: johan engelen

And for how to train it.

easy. By only presenting him the arm to bite. legs are hidden behind an obstacle and the arm is presented and even put in his mouth. When he is sent he knows he has to bite. untill he gets it. attacks are done on a long line to help the dog.

And he is much faster and harderhitting on the arm. We"re getting there. To fully re-train a dog you need 3 to 4 months.

Greetings

Johan

yup thats pretty much what i was thinking. well to be exact i was thinking of a low wooden fence, so that way he cant run around the object. And it also teaches the dog to jump higher to get the bite.

 Quote: michael west

I guess for sports, but i will take a high biteing dog any day over a low biteing one :-D

Here are a few questions?
which person can run faster one with wounded arm or one with a wounded leg?

I think the arm. So an arm dog has to keep biting to prevent the criminal of fleeing fast, whereas the legdog can do a "hit and run" scenario which is safer for the dog.

What is easier killing a dog when his vital organs and head/troath are in the nieghbourhood of your weapon or killing the same dog when you have to bent down to reach those areas and you're off ballance?

From personal experience i know that it is much easier to touch the dog when he's in the arm than when he is in your leg and you're trying to stay vertical. (This is with suit).

Greetigns

Johan

 Quote: johan engelen

Here are a few questions?
which person can run faster one with wounded arm or one with a wounded leg?

Regardless the suspect is going to be on the ground after the dog hits him. Try running at full speed in the bite suit and see if you can stay up when the dog hits you. Honestly you more then likely can. Now take a inexperienced decoy and try it. possibly. Now take a suspect running away with a deep fear of getting bit with no protection on? i will put money he is going down.

 Quote: johan engelen

I think the arm. So an arm dog has to keep biting to prevent the criminal of fleeing fast, whereas the legdog can do a "hit and run" scenario which is safer for the dog.

To my knowledge most police dogs and All US military dogs bite and hold. We don't do a "hit and run"

 Quote: johan engelen

What is easier killing a dog when his vital organs and head/troath are in the nieghbourhood of your weapon or killing the same dog when you have to bent down to reach those areas and you're off ballance?

Like i said either way the suspect is going to be on the ground after the dog hits him. Now lets say this is not the case. If the dog goes for the legs the suspect has both hands free to stab/shoot the dog what ever it might be. If the dog bites one of the arms thats a 50% chance of it being the arm and hand holding the weapon. Witch would make the chances of the dog getting attacked even less. On top of that (this applys to leg bites to honestly) If the suspect is running away then the dog will be attacking from the back witch will cause even more problems for the suspect if they are trying to attack the dog.

 Quote: johan engelen

From personal experience i know that it is much easier to touch the dog when he's in the arm than when he is in your leg and you're trying to stay vertical. (This is with suit).

Ah but the thing of it is "this is with the suit" i am not talking about with a suit or a sleeve or any sports. I am talking about real life application. So honestly unless one of us has been on the wrong end of the law no one has personal experience and can say one way or another on witch way is best.

I will end this post with this note. I think if the dog gets a good leg bite, arm bite, chest/back bite. The suspect will more then likely go down. If not then i would imagin any LEO K9 Officer would be right behind there dog.

Oopes.

i meant thats the end of my statement right there. not the topic. I think this has been a good conversation so far.