Jenni Williams wrote 08/27/2007 11:55 AM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: lisa harrison ] #153377 - 08/27/2007 11:55 AM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	It's not so much about what stages of bitework they're in; it's about the character of the dog. Some "fully trained" dogs would allow it, and some "full of themselves" untrained pups would do something ugly. I brought up "pet" dogs meaning pet quality...ie, unlikely (but not unheard of) to come up the leash after an unfair correction. You keep going back to what level of bitework they're in, but it's not about that at all; it's simply the temperament of the dog, and I'm afraid your mindset is going to get you in trouble. I would not hand anyone the leash of any of my dogs except my APBT. Not to my boyfriend, not to my mother, and certainly not to a trainer. It's not the bitework that causes this; this is a genetic, inherent trait in many dogs. You need to change your thinking that we're somehow "teaching" them this, and it will make a lot more sense.
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Michael West wrote 08/27/2007 12:21 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: Jenni Williams ] #153384 - 08/27/2007 12:21 PM
Michael West Webboard User Reg: 05-23-2007 Posts: 551 Loc: Washington, USA Offline	Jenni, I almost completely agree. The main reason i saying it has to do with bite work is i trained my dog to attack when someone grabs the leash. The other handlers can play around but as soon as the decoy or suspect trys to pull on the leash he is coming up it. Michael.West "Everything flows down leash"
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lisa harrison wrote 08/27/2007 12:27 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: Jenni Williams ] #153386 - 08/27/2007 12:27 PM
lisa harrison Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2007 Posts: 315 Loc: Southern States Offline	Jenni, Thanks for the clarification.I see what you are saying, so I would have to say "No" we had no dogs with those specific character traits. They were all pretty passive, happy go lucky dogs. They would have to be provoked, agitated (whatever verbage you all use) to bite. But isn't that what you are doing, arousing the dogs suspician or aggitating him to do something aggressive, like bite? There are dogs that won't bite. (Nervous, skittish, shy dogs-sometimes won't bite, unless they are a fear biter)Someone else gave a reply (don't remember who it was)when I said "teach" a dog to bite vs. showing him when it is or is not allowed. (Teach & show in my mind is the same thing)Can you suggest one of the videos or books that will give me a better understanding of the way you all train, because obviously our methods are different. Lisa
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Jenni Williams wrote 08/27/2007 12:53 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: lisa harrison ] #153389 - 08/27/2007 12:53 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Quote: lisa harrison They were all pretty passive, happy go lucky dogs. They would have to be provoked, agitated (whatever verbage you all use) to bite. Ever met a dog who will bite someone for staring at him? It doesn't take much more than threatening posture to "agitate" a dog w/the right stuff for protection work. We do not need to go to great lengths to "make" these dogs bite.  Quote: lisa harrison But isn't that what you are doing, arousing the dogs suspician or aggitating him to do something aggressive, like bite? There are dogs that won't bite. (Nervous, skittish, shy dogs-sometimes won't bite, unless they are a fear biter) There are no dogs that won't bite. Biting is only a matter of thresholds.  Quote: lisa harrison Someone else gave a reply (don't remember who it was)when I said "teach" a dog to bite vs. showing him when it is or is not allowed. That was me. As for videos, I haven't personally seen any, but people say good things about a lot of them. I'm sure someone will chime in.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/27/2007 01:01 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: lisa harrison ] #153392 - 08/27/2007 01:01 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: lisa harrison Can you suggest one of the videos or books that will give me a better understanding of the way you all train, because obviously our methods are different. Train what? This thread started out about a working dog and then included pet obedience. Here are some videos: http://www.leerburg.com/dvd.htm I have "assigned" number 302 (first on this list) to new owners doing their first obedience training with their pet dogs.
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David Eagle wrote 08/27/2007 01:12 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #153395 - 08/27/2007 01:12 PM
David Eagle Webboard User Reg: 08-17-2007 Posts: 528 Loc: La Habra, California Offline	Basic Dog Obedience (302) is a great DVD. I initially wrote "The meat of it is in the section labeled "Introduction"." but this isn't true. There is meat throughout this DVD. However, the method of training and steps taken from initially teaching a new command through proofing it are described predominantly in the section labeled "introduction". Actually, I wish this section was further broken down, there's just so much in it. You need to buy this DVD. Some dogs hate hats.
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lisa harrison wrote 08/27/2007 01:29 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #153401 - 08/27/2007 01:29 PM
lisa harrison Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2007 Posts: 315 Loc: Southern States Offline	Train what? This thread started out about a working dog and then included pet obedience. ................................... First Steps of Bite training is what I think I am looking for Lisa
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/27/2007 01:36 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: lisa harrison ] #153405 - 08/27/2007 01:36 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: lisa harrison Train what? This thread started out about a working dog and then included pet obedience. ................................... First Steps of Bite training is what I think I am looking for Lisa, after you click on "quote" at the bottom of the post you want to quote, you then add your own message below the quoted message.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/27/2007 01:38 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: David Eagle ] #153406 - 08/27/2007 01:38 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: David Eagle Basic Dog Obedience (302) is a great DVD. ..... You need to buy this DVD. I agree with you.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 08/27/2007 01:39 PM Re: Training around traffic... [Re: lisa harrison ] #153407 - 08/27/2007 01:39 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: lisa harrison First Steps of Bite training is what I think I am looking for http://www.leerburg.com/101-b.htm
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