you can also put your toy under your arm pit on the left side.So that way he is looking right up and not forging. I have leerburg's training vest that I love ,it's been too hot to wear right now but I can't wait to use it in the next month cause I can hide all kinds of goodies in it.One thing Robbin, having your dog wanting the ball is great and use it to your advantage,don't give it to him at all if he is not in the right position.When I hold the toy in my right hand I bring it over my chest to the left side, so that he does not stretch in front to see it on the right side.Hold your toy with the right if you want but hold it over to the left so he sees it right above instead of across the other side, when he sit straight drop it, he will learn to catch it quick in his mouth and stay straight....try that

when he sit straight drop it, he will learn to catch it quick in his mouth and stay straight....try that

Angelique, is he staying in the heal position as he catches the ball or are you releasing him so that he can move around as he gets the reward?

 Quote: sandy moore

When he looks up at the toy (at a sit at your side), even before moving forward, drop the toy for him to catch it (just open your hand and let it fall). Keep doing this. You'll want him focused on that toy and ready to catch it when you drop it.

Then start taking a couple of steps forward, stop, with him sitting next to you, drop the toy. Only drop the toy when Levi is looking at it and when he's in the right position. Do it again with 3 steps, then with 5 steps, then 1 step, etc. Do it without taking any steps again, just as long as Levi is looking at that toy and he's in the right position.

I do it with Lear with treats and with toys. He doesn't care which. Treats have the advantage of being able to constantly shell out the food while we're heeling (and he's looking and in correct position), but a toy works just as great. Eventually Levi will be focused enough that he can walk longer before you release the toy.

This is a great technique Sandy it's really all about the 'eye contact' or 'focus'. I know a lot of novice trainers myself included just want to jump to a perfectly heeling dog that obeys every command like telepathy.

Robbin just in the real world it doesn't happen like that sad to say. It's all about keeping things simple for you and the dog and not missing any steps and or else we risk having to untrain bad habits.

Sefi's advice to Sandy

 Quote: sandy moore

So I started, per Sefi, with telling Lear to sit, then "I" walked to his right side and said "heel" and treated. I did this many times before even starting to walk. When I did finally take a couple of steps and stopped, I would say heel and Lear would sit next to me.

A perfect example of keeping it simple and not frustrating both dog and handler. You can never go wrong by going back to the basics.

wow!~ Love the info, I can hardly wait to implement the lessons I am going to learn. Bindi is very eager so I am excited about seeing how all this works out for us! We have over 1/2 an acre, so we have plenty of space to practice!
I had a question re: training for agility. I wonder, do we train our dogs at home first, so the distractions are minimal and then enroll them in a class so they can begin to have more distractions? I agree with Ed that it is so unfair to teach a dog when the distractions are rampant. What would be the right thing to do? I know I have plenty of time because we are beginning on obedience right now, but just wondering.
Love sharon

Hi Steve,
Once your dog has the toy as you drop it, it's ok for him to move from the position. You are simply teaching him"you sit straight you get a reward" so when he has the reward he has learned the correct position.

Geoff,
Sandy is simply responding to Robbin's issue.Robbin said that her dog is sitting crooked and in front of her.Due to the fact that she has used a toy to reward her dog on her recall in front.Now he looks for the toy in front of her.SO we are trying to "fix" the position by using a toy where he can see it so that he does not forge and look for it by cutting in front of her.Sandy is not saying that he HAS to look at Robbin when he heels at all times simply trying to make Robbin's dog understand that he is not to get in-front of her at a finish position in order to get his toy.Makes sense? i know the continuous heeling with your dog looking at you is something to master and for novice handlers it is a bit hard to get done without help.I myself like my dog to be aware of his surrounding and not sooo focused on me during heeling .Unfortunately I get points taken out at trial for that but i like my dog to be "aware to strangers around" I get 50% if my heeling with my dog looking at me while heeling and I'm OK with that..

Hi Robbin,
Start in the hallway in the house or against a fence, it works. Maybe the dog just doesn't know the position yet,
AL

 Quote: angelique cadogan

Geoff,
Sandy is simply responding to Robbin's issue.Robbin said that her dog is sitting crooked and in front of her.Due to the fact that she has used a toy to reward her dog on her recall in front.Now he looks for the toy in front of her.SO we are trying to "fix" the position by using a toy where he can see it so that he does not forge and look for it by cutting in front of her.Sandy is not saying that he HAS to look at Robbin when he heels at all times simply trying to make Robbin's dog understand that he is not to get in-front of her at a finish position in order to get his toy.Makes sense?

Yes Angelique I totally understand Robbin's issue that she is having with her dog. I worked through a similar problem with my dog with the 'stand' that I found very long, drawn out and frustrating.

I think we would agree that there is basically 3 steps in teaching a new exercise.

1. Shape the behavior by luring or using appropriate tools, exercise specific. Click, treat, give toy or whichever reward a person uses... Repeat, repeat, repeat.

2. Make sure the animal knows the 'command' for the specific exercise. Click, treat, give toy ... Repeat, repeat, repeat. Once the handler is sure that the animal knows the command then the handler can start to add 'corrections' to the animal, if not revert to step#1

3. Proof the exercise by adding distractions... Repeat, repeat, repeat.

From Robbin's description her dog is at step #2 and I saw she is getting frustated. Like I was teaching the stand to my dog. Sandy's and other's descriptions of various training techniques are bang on and got me inspired. Really not much to do about eye contact, just more about focusing on Robbin's dog fixation on the toy to use to her advantage to 'fix' the position for the return to heel exercise.

My original thinking behind my original post was from when I was listening intently to Mr Frawley's podcasts on various subjects around the same time while watching my 14yr old daughter work our Malinois in beginner Agility. I was having all sorts of training revelations watching them work the field with the podcast info that was sinking into my novice trainer brain.

At the end of the 10 weeks they had a little fun match and my daughter handled our Mal pretty close to verbatim: spots, contact points etc from the instructors advice. But alas they were other dogs that were much quicker around the course, reason being the handlers were dragging their dogs through the weave poles and lifting them up on the the A-frame and tables etc.

But really what did those dogs learn? ... probably not much. Those handlers just totally disregarded 10 weeks of training. They wanted a top notch speedy agility dog and got it hell or high water. Pretty high expectations I'd say. That being said, It's to easy to for novice handlers (like myself) to be fixated on the end result and then we forget how we get there.

What I was/am trying to convey and encourage is that it is not a crime to revert to the basics. Keeping training technique simple, repeatable and easy to understand for the dog without overwhelming the animal (IMO) has to be where it is at.

 Quote: Sharon Empson

I had a question re: training for agility. I wonder, do we train our dogs at home first, so the distractions are minimal and then enroll them in a class so they can begin to have more distractions? I agree with Ed that it is so unfair to teach a dog when the distractions are rampant. What would be the right thing to do? I know I have plenty of time because we are beginning on obedience right now, but just wondering.
Love sharon

Hi Sharon,

First of all just work on your dog's obedience you need a lot of specific equipment to train agility plus all the specific rules and stuff. Agility is best learnt from a seasoned instructor.

As for worrying about distractions in agility the dog is usually at intermediate or advanced level (which would be starting into distractions) of obedience before you should consider training agility. You wouldn't have any training control other wise on or off leash on the field.