I feed my puppy Orijen, and was reading their web page today when I came across this "research" paper.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/documents/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf


Very interesting stuff coming from a pet food company!


Orijen is a high protein, grain free dog food made in Canada. Their food matches the information in their paper, which all sounds good.

I was wondering about the information where they talk about high fat being necessary. Is this just in performing dogs, or is this really necessary for all dogs?

Dogs use fat similarly to the way humans use carbs, for energy. But discussion of the fat requirements of dogs is difficult when the food is cooked.

The information about quantities of fat that wild canids flourish on, for example, is information about raw fat. Cooked (and, in many commercial foods, overcooked and rancid) fats are chemically changed.

My point is that yes, what they say about fat is true, according to the reading/research I have done, but to me, it's true of raw fats, and I just don't know the answer about cooked fats.

In my book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon, she states that the "Wulzen Factor" or "anti-stiffness" factor is only present in raw animal fat. Calves fed pasteurized or skim milk developed joint stiffness and didn't thrive. Their symptoms were reversed when raw butterfat was added to the diet.
The book only mentions this factor specifically in milk fat, I haven't found anywhere that it is ONLY in butterfat. There are many other benefits attributed to animal fats and the beneficial vegetable fats that are not destroyed by cooking the fats.
The author advises us to avoid safflower, corn, sunflower, soybean and cottonseed oils after they have been heated. Canola oils should be avoided completely because the omega-3 fatty acids of processed canola contain trans fatty acid.

Based on what I have found in this book I would say that with the exception of the Wulzen Factor cooking or heating animal fats doesn't destroy the benefits of fats. All of the information in this book is being applied to humans, but logic would say that it would also apply to dogs.

In regards to raw foods this book also says that cooking destroys the natural enzymes in the foods so that we must use our own enzymes to digest the food.

 Quote: Debbie Bruce

All of the information in this book is being applied to humans, but logic would say that it would also apply to dogs.

But why? Why would logic say that nutrition advice for humans applies to dogs?

 Quote: Debbie Bruce

In regards to raw foods this book also says that cooking destroys the natural enzymes in the foods so that we must use our own enzymes to digest the food.

Why would dogs, who have been forced to eat cooked food for a mere blip on the nutritional anthropology timeline, have these enzymes? We already know that they do not have the human enzymes for digesting grains (like amylase) in the quantity needed for daily grain-heavy foods.

The so-called holiday pancreatitis (or Thanksgiving pancreatitis) that happens every year as a result of dogs dumpster-diving (or being fed from the table) lots of fatty (as in cooked fat) foods is just one more signal to me that dogs do not process large quantities of cooked fats well, just as they do not digest grain-heavy foods well.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: debbie bruce

All of the information in this book is being applied to humans, but logic would say that it would also apply to dogs.

But why? Why would logic say that nutrition advice for humans applies to dogs?

The basic idea in this book is that raw, natural foods are the most beneficial for people because we DON'T have to work as hard to extract the nutrition from them (manufacture the neccesary enzymes).
My main point with the fats was that there are some beneficial properties that are lost when they are cooked (the Wulzen Factor). If it's lost to the human it is also lost to the dog. But not all fats loose all the nutritional value when cooked, and some fats are harmful if cooked. I didn't mean to imply that it was safe to just load dogs down with lots of cooked fats and grains.

 Quote: debbie bruce

In regards to raw foods this book also says that cooking destroys the natural enzymes in the foods so that we must use our own enzymes to digest the food.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Why would dogs, who have been forced to eat cooked food for a mere blip on the nutritional anthropology timeline, have these enzymes? We already know that they do not have the human enzymes for digesting grains (like amylase) in the quantity needed for daily grain-heavy foods.

You are assuming that humans have developed some super-duper digestive processes just because we have been eating cooked foods for a long time. I am saying that we are in the same boat as the dog that has eaten all his prepared omnivore meals cooked (remember that we have been fed the "modern dogs have been bred to be an omnivore" and "raw meat is dangerous for dogs" lines. Dogs are better off eating raw meat with it's enymes and wholesome nutrition, and when people include raw foods in their omnivore diets they are also better off. We BOTH benefit from the enzymes in RAW foods.

 Quote: connie sutherland

The so-called holiday pancreatitis (or Thanksgiving pancreatitis) that happens every year as a result of dogs dumpster-diving (or being fed from the table) lots of fatty (as in cooked fat) foods is just one more signal to me that dogs do not process large quantities of cooked fats well, just as they do not digest grain-heavy foods well.

Do you know what the effect is if a dog were to eat the same quantity of raw animal fat? I haven't been feeding gobs of raw fat to my dogs to know the answer. Do they just have very fat poops? Are the cooked fats causing the dogs' Thanksgiving Pancreatis cooked vegetable fats or cooked animal fats?

This is all interesting; you make good points.

The so-called holiday pancreatitis (roasted meats and gravies) is something that I have never seen or heard of in raw-fed dogs or dogs who had taken down prey, in all my time of studying canine nutrition. Holiday roasts and gravy are not gobs of extra fat. They are the fat that comes on the meat, but it's cooked. Well-cooked.

I have seen it in dogs who have eaten a large piece of road kill with now-rancid fat, however.

And now I see that the gist of the post was that raw trumps cooked for humans too, in the case of some food groups. :>

QUOTE: You are assuming that humans have developed some super-duper digestive processes just because we have been eating cooked foods for a long time. END

No I'm not.


But it's very different from the canine system.

We have gotten too far afield, I think, though, with a book about human nutrition. :>