Amber Morgan wrote 11/21/2007 07:33 PM Re: Help ! my dog vomits a little bit on the raw d [Re: Carol Boche ] #164178 - 11/21/2007 07:33 PM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	Hi Maria, I don't know how the butchers do things in Aruba (I wish I had Aruba experience!!!), but if the butcher is selling legs and wings and breasts, then he has necks and backs SOMEWHERE! Don't be afraid to ask if you can have them. Lots of butchers in the States, anyway, will give them to you at a discount because they're just junk that they throw away in general...some people do use them for soup. My butcher actually gives them to me for free. And my GSD had a really hard time with the transition to raw, while my Corgi had no problem whatsoever. In the end, I had to fast him (the GSD) for a day before starting raw to make it work. It's hard at first, especially if your dog has problems. But this really is the BEST thing you can do, and don't give up. Carbon
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/21/2007 07:46 PM Re: Help ! my dog vomits a little bit on the raw d [Re: Rosalinda van den Ham ] #164185 - 11/21/2007 07:46 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Maria van den Ham .... I have to buy meat ready for human consumption, which is a challenge because here they only sell the parts that people buy the most, so there are no necks or backs for sale here. If a bird is cut into quarters, then there are no separate backs. There are four quarters. The wings are part of the breast quarters, and the drumsticks are part of the leg quarters. THe back is not separated, but is part of all those quarters. If the bird is cut into drumsticks and thighs and breasts and wings, THEN there is also a back section. See this: http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/cutupchicken.htm and scroll down to the bottom photo. D and E are the back, which happens to be cut in half there. So yes, a butcher who either cuts them all into quarters or who receives the birds from some main plant already cut up would not have backs. But in that case, you could use quarters. Pricey, but doable while you look for a bigger (or more cooperative) butcher. Wings (on their own) are my least favorite starter item or, for that matter, major item in the diet, period. They are a lot of fat (skin) and bones, and low on meat. As part of the whole bird, of course, it all evens out. As a basic diet item -- not so good. JMO.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/21/2007 07:55 PM Re: Help ! my dog vomits a little bit on the raw d [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #164189 - 11/21/2007 07:55 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	And yes, Amber has a good suggestion: Some butchers combine the backs and necks in bags and call them "soup" or "stock" pieces.... a great source for RMBs, even though you would need to feed additional muscle meat to replicate an approximate whole prey. You want to be able to identify the pieces by looks, though, because you don't want to end up with frames and no meat. :>
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Carol Boche wrote 11/21/2007 08:06 PM Re: Help ! my dog vomits a little bit on the raw d [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #164197 - 11/21/2007 08:06 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Quote: Connie Sutherland Wings (on their own) are my least favorite starter item or, for that matter, major item in the diet, period. They are a lot of fat (skin) and bones, and low on meat. As part of the whole bird, of course, it all evens out. As a basic diet item -- not so good. JMO. I guess that is what I started with, but always left part of the breast attached and removed most of the skin at first, it all depended on what was available before I got smart and started ordering cases of whole chickens and cutting them up. I was thinking from her post that she cannot get too much in the way of variety, but I may have misunderstood. I have been lucky though, all the dogs on raw here took to it well while I was learning....... Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/21/2007 08:26 PM Re: Help ! my dog vomits a little bit on the raw d [Re: Carol Boche ] #164200 - 11/21/2007 08:26 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	About wings:  Quote: Carol Boche I guess that is what I started with, but always left part of the breast attached and removed most of the skin at first, it all depended on what was available before I got smart and started ordering cases of whole chickens and cutting them up. Oh, heck, yeah..... so would I. I meant that I often read (elsewhere, usually) about people recommending wings as the starter raw food, and they would not be my first choice. The way you describe is different..... you removed some of the fatty skin and added some meat. I think you can use just about anything when you're thinking about what to remove or add so that it's close to the meat-bone ratio of the whole prey. :>
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/21/2007 08:28 PM Re: Help ! my dog vomits a little bit on the raw d [Re: Mike Armstrong ] #164201 - 11/21/2007 08:28 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: mike armstrong In two years of raw feeding my current GSD, she has thrown up a couple times (that I know of!) like you described and both times went back to it before I knew what she was doing. Unless it became a frequent thing, I wouldn't be concerned. As my dad would have said, maybe "his eyes are bigger than his belly" Unless you have a rare breed of backless chicken there , you may be able to order them from some stores. They obviously don't sell well in a market, but I've had grocers look in their order book and they found they were able to order them even though they don't usually have a call for them. I've had some say they would sell a smaller amount. You might want to consider investing in a good meat grinder (e.g., search this forum for Northern grinder - $100) and then watch for specials on cheap whole chickens and grind 'em up. The grinder would pay for itself in a few months. Mike Ditto to all this, including the occasional frothy vomit. I don't worry, either, unless it's frequent.
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Mike Armstrong wrote 11/21/2007 10:16 PM Re: Help ! my dog vomits a little bit on the raw d [Re: Rosalinda van den Ham ] #164214 - 11/21/2007 10:16 PM
Mike Armstrong Webboard User Reg: 08-06-2005 Posts: 615 Loc: San Diego, CA Offline	In Southern California, "butcher" is an archaic misnomer. They should be called "meat counter clerks." They don't do real butcher work anymore. That's the chicken problem - it all comes in 40# boxes of wings or thighs or whatever. The only place I can actually get backs is the one small store where they cut up chickens on premises.  Quote: Maria van den Ham . . . I hope his coat will have improved by the 30 of November because my daughter will have a speech in english in school about GSD's and I get to do a little show. She will mention the benefit of raw food also. Hopefully there won't be other dogs or cats because then the show will be about a chasing dog. P.S. It this just my idea, or does the farts smell a little stronger, also? Just to cover yourself, be sure to tell them at the start that raw feeding doesn't include catching/eating cats. I think raw food = no farts and small poops. You're probably getting the aroma of him de-toxing. Same with the coat. My recollection is that the dog will shed a lot of the old coat before the nice one appears. Got access to a Furminator? Mike Suppose you were an idiot. Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. -Mark Twain
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