On the field or in the training hall my dog even at 16 mos is very much in tune with what I want and just aims to please. I correct once maybe twice with a prong or even voice and she figures it out ... fast.

Her first organized puppy class was at 4 mos. By the time she was 8-9 mos old she was doing advanced group obedience group classes at a CD level with adult dogs, and mostly at the top of the class. Some of the dogs would be 2-3 years old so it was quite impresive to me seeing her do it. BTW It was all motivational (clicker/food) on a flat collar. I added a prong for walks at about 7 mos as she liked to forge ahead and it drove me nuts. I didn't start to add fair 'real' corrections with the prong until she was approx 10 mos.

Lately and only in the house he is getting lazy on her obedience breaking sit, couche, being a general brat with basic things she knows to a tee. I hate having to repeat basic commands, it is like cooouche (soft) .... Couche (louder) ....COUCHE!! (bark) it's like she is thinking by the time I get to the barked command "oh he really means it now" then she snaps to attention.

I know I need to not repeat a command if she doesn't comply and physically place her into the position and then praise her ... but with some of my physical limitations I am not in a position to do so. Plus this is stuff she already knows and I find it somewhat frustrating 10 steps forward and 20 steps back it seems. Remember this is in the house not in the field or training hall.

Does this seem like typical dog teenager behaviour that she will grow out of? Or is it something I should be really concerned about?

For now I'm going to leave her prong on her now with a training tab on it so I can zing her if she needs it. But I'm afraid that she will lose it somewhere in the house or worse in the backyard now that we have snow cover up here now.

Would you all have any other suggestions for me?

Sounds like brat-city to me Ain't it great?

I am bumping this, since I know there are some that will have great answers for you......something I am interested in reading as well.
(mine is a BRAT too.....)

I know, I could watch one of my many DVD's but our DVD player went t**s up, so until I go to Rapid on Monday, I gotta wait.......plus, it is way FUN here

I am aging a trail, so y'all are stuck with me.....everyone else was worked at dawn this morning.......

Geoff, I've never seen my dog's prong come undone but realize it can happen. Maybe it's time for the e-collar for your dog. Sixteen months was when my dog, who is now 17 mos, started to seriously challenge me and I believe obedience is of utmost importance to get through those times and remind the dog of his rank. Letting the dog get away with obeying when he feels like it is'nt good for the age when they start to try and rise up in the ranks.

So my dog has his e-collar put on first thing in the morning and taken off last thing at night. As Cindy Easton Rhodes put it, just like a wristwatch, on in the morning, off at night. I must add there was some handler aggression issues as well and her advice was tailored for my specific situation, which included alpha type barking at me from his crate, so you decide for yourself of course. But even if my dog's only issue was disobedience in the house, the e-collar would be my tool of choice because you don't have to be right there to grab a drag line. My dog will be wearing his for this period of time, which may last quite a while. ugh...

She has had a prong since 7 mos and she has removed by scratching at it or rolling in the grass 3 times since. So it is something that mind you is hard for her to do but still something she is capable of if given the right set of circumstances.

I totally want a Dogtra 1700 but it is not in the budget until after christmas now. I really know that the e-collar will be a tool that will make my training easier, it is in the cards but not at this exact time. So I really hope that I can get some other suggestions that can help in controlling her in house bratiness until I can get my e-collar. Bearing in mind I am moderately mobility impaired.

I hate to keep physically having to mould her into basic OB positions because she chooses to ignore commands that she already knows in the house. (it is taxing on me physically and wears me down)

Maybe it is time to regress and start working on basic ground work again? Or is that to extreme in my dog's and my situation?

Hi Geoff, if your dog really knows the command 100% then I don't think you have to physically put her in the position. My advice would be to give the commmand, if she doesn't comply, say NO and if she doesn't immediately comply, then give a good correction.

Then say the command again (because now you will have her attention, for sure) and you should see results (and of course she gets praise). She'll quickly learn that if she doesn't follow a command, she gets a correction and if she does, she gets praise and/or a reward. Either way, something happens after a command...and it's up to the dog to decide if that something is a positive thing or not.

I admit that I used to give dogs two chances to comply before a correction, but about a year or so ago I watched one of Ed's videos and he didn't waste time with second chances for the dog. I have to admit, trying it his way has meant that I hardly ever have to correct anymore because he knows it's more fun for him to listen to me the first time and it has GREATLY improved the polishing on my training!

Of course, I don't do this on a dog that isn't solid on the command or one that hasn't been worked in awhile. Then I just sort of back up and give the dog some remedial classes!

And I agree with Sandy on the e-collar...it's a great tool, especially for dogs that listen when they're right next to you on a leash but not when they're out of the way. OR with dogs that listen on the training field, but know they get away with stuff in the house because you don't have a leash on them.

Sounds like your girl is a good dog who's just testing your qualifications as a leader. Sort of like what my 8 year old son's trying to do with me these days.

Sandy, I have a question for you about how long you leave the collar on, but I'll start my own thread for that!

Oh, and in answer to your last question, I don't think revisiting Groundwork is EVER a bad idea.

If you can't get an e-collar for awhile you could try tethering her to you in the house for few days or weeks. It can be a pain, but it's really effective in giving the dog reminders. If Carbon gets snarky with me, I'll do that for a few days and it works wonders. Hang in there...Christmas is almost here, according to all of the decorations I see in every store and all the Christmas jingles that I hear everywhere now!

When I say mould her into basic OB positions. I mean that I am trying not to repeat commands, and this is when she just has her flat collar on. For sure when she has a prong or fur saver with a even a tab as a lead. I zing her within reason (as she is a cerebral dog it doesn't take anything heavy handed to get her attention) first time every time when she doesn't comply to a command.

Though, and this is what frustrates me physically. She will duck and dodge (submissive like tail between legs and ears flat) when I go to handle her when all she has on is a flat, that's the time I usually mould her into the position and give some praise.

I'm not sure where the duck and dodge comes from because she is a sensitive to correction dog or just because I am a big guy and intimidate her. It is like she knows a correction is coming and adjusts accordingly while still trying to push the limits, and she plays on my soft side?

Yours is doing better then my brat. When mine goes off, there is no 'oh I know this wrong', it's na-na-na-na you can't catch me kind of attitude.
Yup, shes running straight into a e-collar.
Randy

Sorry Geoff, if I misunderstood you! But I still think that tethering is a good idea in controlling her in-house until you get the e-collar.