??? I have the Basic Obedience Training DVD, and if memory serves, I don't think this question is addressed (I will be re-watching it in the next few nights). I was wondering if you are in the "Learning phase" of training, and you a sure the dog knows a command, do you stop using markers? For example, Kodee has a solid "sit." I find myself still marking the behavior, even though he knows the command. Can I stop marking this? Right now we are working on extending the length of the sit. So I started marking him (with verbal "yes!") at whatever length of time I want him to sit for 10 seconds or 15 seconds, vs. the moment his behind hits the ground). When (if ever) do you stop marking a behavior?

Also, once you get to the "correction phase" of training, are you past the point of marking by then? (I hope I'm making my question clear - if not, I apologize.)

No, you randomize it. Once the dog learns the exercise or trick you are teaching, you mark and reward intermitantly to make the dog work for the possibility of food reward. This utilizes frustration to build drive. I am paraphrasing Ed from this article: Theory of Motivation

As Rick quoted, "Randomize". No reason to completely stop but I never use the marker unless I'm prepaired to give a reward. That may be food, tug or a bite.
For my dog, who loves to just rough house with me, I can also give a non marker "OK" which just means You've done a good job, let's play".
You have to understand what floats your own dog's boat.

As I understand it, you want the marker to precede your a-bomb of rewards (not the jackpot neccesarily, just the most preferred treat you'd use to teach). Use something else to release and/or "casually" reward if you can't give the most preferred reward following the precise mark.

Like Bob said, if I can't give a high value reward (toy or food) I'll say "let's go" instead of my designated mark, and he seems to get some enjoyment from simply being released, so that's good enough for that.

I see the difference in that he'll come straight for me when I give the mark (even if I don't possess a reward at the time), but he'll just randomly romp off when I say "let's go".

This is a bit off the op's question but when using food as a reward I like to have 2-3 different treats in my pocket.
Kinda like a kid getting a chocolate cookie every day for doing good, then suddenly he gets an Oreo. Not necessarily better or worse but the "suprise" can help keep the dog's drive up.
This doesn't necessarily work for all dogs. My older GSD will stop in his tracks to check out the new taste. He's even spit it out and then realized he liked it, and then ate it.
These little things are what makes it interesting.

I think Steven makes a great point about your marker not being a release. The marker should mean "that was right, and a reward is coming" and as all have said, if you can't reward don't mark, but DO give a "good dog" and perhaps a pat before the release. If your dog is really praise motivated (high pack drive) you can mark and praise as a reward, but that's up to you, and requires a lot of discipline with your praise. I don't think I could do that well.

Intermittant REWARDS are crucial, but I would put these in the fourth phase of training, the "Maintenance" phase as Ed calls it. This does not mean that you stop AFFIRMING every time. For instance, if your marker word is "yes" and you've gone through the three phases marking and rewarding success (then finally correcting non-success) you can assume that the dog knows the command, and it's fully proofed (and getting to this point can take years) you go into maintenance. I may not mark and reward for each success, but I do affirm each success. "Sit" and then, quietly, "good." Doesn't need to be flashy, just a simple expression of your satisfaction.

I don't have a problem if the dog uses the marker as a release. He's done what I required and I've marked and rewarded. That particular exercise is finished. If I don't want him to finish, I use a bridge. A quiet "goood" that extends the exercise while still giving the dog approval.

Bob: Do you have a separate command for "stay" ? Or do you just not mark until the end of a down/stay?

 Quote: rick miller

No, you randomize it. Once the dog learns the exercise or trick you are teaching, you mark and reward intermitantly to make the dog work for the possibility of food reward. This utilizes frustration to build drive. I am paraphrasing Ed from this article: Theory of Motivation

 Quote: bob scott

As Rick quoted, "Randomize". No reason to completely stop but I never use the marker unless I'm prepaired to give a reward. That may be food, tug or a bite.
For my dog, who loves to just rough house with me, I can also give a non marker "OK" which just means You've done a good job, let's play".
You have to understand what floats your own dog's boat.

I feel I need to clarify, and for some reason I can't edit to add this to my post.

I think I may have insinuated that both the marker and the reward are random. Ed says you should always give a reward after the mark. It can be food or a toy, and rarely praise by itself. Therefore, I wouldn't want my marker the same as my release command. I want the dog to think everytime I say "yes!" this means reward. Now, if you are saying that you will allow the dog to release from the command upon hearing the marker, as the excersize is complete, I am open to that.

Bob, I really like your idea of mixing up the treats with a few varieties of reward. I am sure you have some happy dogs!!