Hi, I am new to this board(Or well should I say new to posting)As I have lurked for years.LOL..This may be long so watch out and I am sorry but I need help or some advice..I am not the posting type but here goes..I need some FAST advice! I bought an 8 month old male malinois who the person bought him from the breeder(yes I have been in contact with her also) when he was 11 wks old to train for Police work.

He sent the pup to his friend to do the training when the pup was 3.5 months old the dog supossably lived in the house with young children..I KNOW this is a lie because the dog is FEARFUL of everything in the house,phone rings,the TV,door knocks ect.He is also NOT good with my toddler(2 yrs old)..Supposably the dog was taken everywhere and socialized which I believe is also another lie as you can tell he is NOT socialized one bit..anyway..

When we first introduced him and my daughter which was that evening,My daughter gave him treats which he took very easily from her hands but then immediately started growling at her.When she was giving him treats he was fine,if she didn't have anything he would either just growl or run to his cage.This goes for anyone,even my fiancee or family/friends that are near him.

Well the next day My daughter was playing and I let the dog out of the cage and he seemed fine and ignored her however I was sitting on the couch and the dog came up to me and sat next to me,I called my daughter over and she came over(The dog was watching her the whole time)..She went to pet him on his side and he nipped her,I got him in time and he didn't actually touch her but it was close,No growl no warning what so ever from him..I don't know what that is?
He is just fearful of her and now after I corrected him that day he won't even come out of his cage when she is around he stays there,so needless to say my fiancee now wants him gone as he is unpredictable and we don't want to chance him biting my daughter as she is very gentle to animals and loves them and we don't want to ruin it..

MY question is I am already VERY attached to this dog in a week and a half time that we have had him,as he is very loyal with me,no aggression toward me or anything of that nature.I have already taught him setz and platz within a couple days he is extremely smart..OK Now, MY question is,If I were to work on socializing this dog(Taking him to training classes,other public places)And doing obedience with him build confidence ect up with him and possibly even kept him muzzled(good or bad?) while running loose around my daughter would it be possible he would learnt to accept her and not be fearful or am I dreaming here and this could never happen??

I hate to give him up but I also don't want to work with him for 6 months or more and then he still won't live peacefully with my daughter..Any suggestions please take it easy on me and sorry for the LONG LONG post,I just wanted to tell everything..I greatly appreciate any help!

Lynn

I think that it is definitly worth a try since a lot of his issues are due to not being accustomed to normal situations. Probably the single best thing to do is be SURE to do the groundwork (which it sounds like you are already doing). another thing, if I were in this situation, I would have everyone ignore the dog for a couple of days, maybe weeks depending on how fearful he is, ignore as in not approaching or soliciting affection. maybe have different people give him food, give him water, every once in a while a treat etc.

Please rehome this dog to an experienced handler...for his sake and for your child's sake.

He's already tried to bite her and you know he's fearful so you have a disaster waiting to happen.

And no, I don't see it as being fair, or even safe, for this dog to be muzzled while running loose around your daughter.

you know I wonder what "training" they were actually doing because even dogs that have spent a lifetime in a kennel arent always that frightened by strange indoor things... just a thought, is there a way to find out?

I think you are in way over your head. There are so many negative aspects to this situation, I agree with re-homing or placing the dog with someone who has the appropriate environment and experience to handle him. You have a very high energy breed, a fear biter, a fiance who's opposed to keeping him, a toddler running around, and (I'm guessing?) no one in your "pack" has the knowledge or experience to interpret the dog's behavior and handle/train him properly. This dog has or developed problems that you're not equipped to solve.

 Quote: Lynn Johnston

...I hate to give him up but I also don't want to work with him for 6 months or more...

You'll need much more than a 6 month or more commitment for this dog. If it's that important to make this a happy situation with your daughter, get another dog/puppy that's better suited to your family and tell her it's a better option than exposing her younger sister/brother to inevitable bad dog bite.

JMO

MIke

Mary, I thought that also.Someone mentioned they were using a E-Collar on him possibly and did it wrong and he is just paronoid about everything like someone is out to get him..

Mike, Actually I have more experience then you might think.Maybe because my e-mail doesn't say that,I am not really good on the computer thus why I NORMALLY don't type on message boards.

I have been training with a schH group for 6 years and belong to a OB/Agility group for the past 14 years..I have owned 5 mals in my life,as well as Czech/DDR working line Shepherds and have never had a problem training them..I have titled many dogs to BH's,CDs,CDX,Ect.I however have the time/resources to socialize the dog and do what I need to do however I am not willing to do that if still in the end(whether it takes 2 yrs) and he still doesn't do well with my daughter so would be better to rehome him to an adult only home while he is still somewhat young then to waste my time on a dog for nothing and focus my attention on my malinois puppy.Especially paying alot of money for this dog and being LIED to about how he was in the first place.I was NOT looking forward to wasting time on a dog that was fearful or not good with my daughter.

My daughter comes first! I have spoken with some experienced dog behaviorist and they feel it will take a good while and still then I wouldn't be able to trust him with my daughter ever..Thanks for the comments/advice..He will be going to a new home this weekend with a Police dog Trainer that knows what he is doing with this type of dog and has the facilities to house him outside until he can start some rehibilitation with him.I will now go back to my lurking stage,thanks anyway!

Lynn

WOW, good job on finding him an appropriate home. Kudos.

 Quote: lynn johnston

... Actually I have more experience then you might think... My daughter comes first!...

I was going by the tone of your original post which didn't mention that background. I think your experience helped you make the right choice and I'm glad it'll work out for everyone. Those who have the history you have with dogs can realize when one is likely to be a difficult, long term challenge.

Unlike yourself, there are far too many clueless owners who seem to think their "fur babies" can be handled by just treating them nice and expecting the dog will respond similarly. That mentality is especially bad when there are small children involved.

I hope your next addition to the family with be a positive experience for all. And with all the training you've done, sounds like you'd be a welcome contributor here. I hope you break away from the lurking more often.

Mike

I think Lynn made the right decision rehoming the dog since she had other priorities. From what has been described this dog has some very serious insecurity issues and would take a lot of time to over come. Depending on what the dog was intended for it may never be able to get where it neeed to be. What triggered it, who kmows?

This dog would need a lot of confidence building exercises and given a lot of time to work through its issues before you could really do any real training in the traditional sense of the word. Training could be used to build confidence if the training matches the dogs temperament.Doing something like this could end up taking a life time and the best you may get is a fairly stable pet.

Dealing with fear is probably one of the most difficult behaviors to work with. For every step of progress you make can be easily set back tenfold.

This is a good example of not tailoring training and conditioning to fulfill the dogs needs on the front end and Lynn got stuck with a damaged dog.

Something about the dogs temperament was overlooked imo. Fear can be turned into a positive thing if training is applied correctly to build the dogs confidence. There is a fine line there that can be easily crossed that could damage the dog.

Lynn also has extensive experience and it sounds like she is going with her instincts and doing what is in the best welfare for the dog and her daughter.

Thanks JC. The dog is now in a new home in Michigan with a very experienced trainer.He plans on letting the dog adjust and to build a relationship with him BEFORE any training with him is started.He feels the dog will come out of it with time and patience and feels he will be a good dog for someone with NO children and in a quite household..He bonds VERY strongly to that one person and was just screwed up by whatever the other "trainer" did to him..Which is VERY sad as he would have been my dream dog IF I would have raised him from a puppy. Ohh well it wasn't meant to be.To answer the question,I planned on having him for a home "alarm"(barking) for when my fiancee works late nights,however I also wanted to compete in AKC Obedience and agility with him.

The good news is I am getting a very social and stable 10 month old Malinois a Yagus son shipped to me on Tuesday! He is coming from a well known "company" so I trust that the dog is everything I asked for and he has been RAISED around children. She says he is a very confident dog so I don't think I will have any problems with him.I am SOO Excited! I will let everyone know how it goes when I get him! Hopefully 2nd time is a charm with getting a young adult!I plan on doing OB/agility and some SchH with him for fun,however I am told he has lazy work ethics which is OK as I don't plan to compete in it.

I have 1 fm malinois puppy who is 11 wks and hopefully my next SchH competitor! She sure is a devil.Her name Is "Fly"
Anyway, I will try to keep up with the board and post more frequently.I am more into reading then posting as I am not to good at it.lol

Lynn