"Can't be promoted well with a ball or anything seen as a toy."

Amen, and the same for reinforcing the "out" with a PSD.

DFrost

Straight apprehensions are so much easier/ safer in my opinion.

Howard- whatever we did- it WORKED. Tues and Weds nights, I did multiple sessions of "cold" searches and he located and alerted EVERY single time. Tonight (Wednesday) I used different decoys (BCSO) and 3 different buildings at the high school- and he was successful on all of them. He was searching and alerting like a seasoned working dog, which blew my mind because I was just telling Tim that he was still having some issues with his alert.

I wish I could figure out exactly what it was that changed his mind, but thank God it worked. It's funny how sometimes the light bulb just turns on and all of a sudden they get it.

We need to remember, especially with our current pups, that they are young and green and we need to have extra patience. Like I said, I'm not sure what made it click in his head, but all of a sudden he gets it.

I can't really imagine how rewarding with a toy could be a good thing to do. Does the dog then have a problem when all of a sudden he has to go into fight drive? Does he learn to think that they decoy is a "friendly"? I have never seen a dog trained in this manner (with a toy, so I cannot judge it fairly, but on theory, I wouldn't try it.

Hi Brian,

Good to hear. I knew he would get it.

 Quote:

I can't really imagine how rewarding with a toy could be a good thing to do. Does the dog then have a problem when all of a sudden he has to go into fight drive? Does he learn to think that they decoy is a "friendly"? I have never seen a dog trained in this manner (with a toy, so I cannot judge it fairly, but on theory, I wouldn't try it.

I always say that it can't be a good thing. I like the dog to stay focused on what he is doing at the time....so, fighting men and playing ball just don't go together.
From what I hear, in some sport venues the decoy is the dogs' friend. Fine with me. The handler isn't going to get killed in the sport ring.

Howard

" From what I hear, in some sport venues the decoy is the dogs' friend. Fine with me. The handler isn't going to get killed in the sport ring."

Truer words were never spoken. What we do isn't sport.

DFrost

How true all this is. I went to a seminar with some guys from Holland and when they train building search it is always a bite. They say they don't do any control work when it come to building search. "I want the dog to know that inside is bite all the way." I don't know if in the US we could get away with this. Maybe I misunderstood what he was getting at.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean either. I will say however, if I'm conducting a building search, once the warning is given and the time expires, if the dog can get to you, you will be bitten, unless recalled by the handler. If he can't get to you, it's an audible response at your location. That falls within any current USC guidelines.

DFrost

 Quote: david_stucenski

How true all this is. I went to a seminar with some guys from Holland and when they train building search it is always a bite. They say they don't do any control work when it come to building search. "I want the dog to know that inside is bite all the way." I don't know if in the US we could get away with this. Maybe I misunderstood what he was getting at.

Ed and I were with the Dutch police when they were conducting a 9 week training course for patrol dogs. They were still teaching searching in the building on a 30 foot long line and they were enforcing a bark abd guard. They were pleased that in the forthcoming year the rules would be changed where they would search off lead for a hidden civil decoy.
They as in all of the EU enforce bark and guard behavior in training.

I must have misunderstood what they ment. They were great guys from Four Winds Police K-9. They supply alot of dogs to the US. Mostly in the NC area. I was always thinking of the passed out drunk homeless guyin a building that does not hear the announcement. The bark and guard seems to be the wave of the future. Bite and Hold seems to be getting less attention. I am still very new to this stuff, but see that this in the wave of what I hear around.