b/c i have twenty million questions about fuzzbutt teagan lately

i walk her on a leerburg traffic lead. when i got her, she was walked on a 6' nylon lead. she had an annoying habit of acting like she was barely aware of another dog, and then at optimum distance for attack, go all out. i know picking up her body language is part of that, but i did have a behaviourist (who has a couple of leerburg dogs, i figured he must know something ) comment that warnings weren't really part of her repertoire.

so as a result of that, traffic lead. i'm not saying she never acts aggressive - she's been a bit more so lately, but i had been trying to challenge her a bit in terms of closeness to non-pack (aka not luc) dogs, and since she remained aggressive, we're back to crossing the street, etc, and she was aggressive still though in the past couple of days there's improvement. she's always been highly aware.

i know dogs on leash can be more aggressive - and i had someone comment especially w/a short leash, which i get. i explained to him why i do it - teagan is sorta tethered to me outside as well so she knows she needs to behave - she certainly doesn't go around launching at other dogs now (edit: generally - it's not really a launch right now), she knows she's on a shorter lead and can't get to them.

is it time for me to start expanding back to longer leashes? maybe the recent attempts i made were more difficult for her b/c she was on a shorter lead? i don't want to be accidentally encouraging more aggression by keeping her on a traffic lead, but i've also never seen her get close to a non-luc dog and not try to go for it. ever. some dogs know to keep away from her - i've said it before, but she can stare dogs down from 30M out into the street - b/c she is a dog fairly independent in her decision making, i also sometimes wonder....if i give her an inch, will she take a mile i do generally hike w/her on a 6' lead.

anyways, i really want to work on this with her, and while i think the traffic lead has some positive behavioural implications for her, perhaps overall it's not a good idea?

Jennifer, I've got my own "Teagan". Not an expert by any means, but I can share what has been working with me. Very interested in your posts so keep them coming...searching for tips too!

She had/has issues with aggression. Much of this I feel is due to what I feel I was sending down the leash. In the neighborhood walks, I have made it a point to walk with her at my side and not out in front. The aggression is what I consider fear based in my opinion. In the neighborhood walks (where she is comfortable) there are really no issues. Down at the park with lots of activity...issues. Still working on this with a goal of being able to walk there without her going nutso.

We are at a point where we can walk by people and be around them with no issue in the neighborhood. She actually walks better on the traffic lead than on the long lead. Much of this is probably my feeling that I have more control of her which runs down the leash. We are able to walk past barking dogs in the neighborhood and recently even past a dog that was outside and in plain view. Little steps.

We have other dogs that she has no issues with. A non-pack dog is another story...with serious issues, very similar to you. She has had a couple of experiences with off leash dogs that would have been very serious if they connected.

As far as her being on a longer lead, I have tried both and she actually is better on the traffic. Again, I think it is because I am more in control and she senses it. I have been walking her on a longer lead, but I keep her by my side with it, with occasional stops for her to sniff. It seems like when I let her "be in charge" walking on a longer lead and out in front, that her excitement or nervousness gets turned up almost immediately. This is when she will show signs to both people and other dogs.

These is just what works for me. Am very interested in "your story" so keep them coming.

Jennifer,

Are you sure you are not tensing up even a little if you see a "situation" coming?

I can always tell when I tense up and it really makes a difference in the way my dogs react.

At training, Ember was loose and another dog (neutral) entered the building and I instantly tensed and lost all connection with her and although she did not see the dog, she instantly started going to everyone else in the room.

Something I have to work on, definitely. But, also something that I am aware that I do, so that makes it easier for me to work on.

Teagan seems as though she is pretty responsive to you, so therefore, even the slightest "twitch" out of you will flow to her.

thanks david and carol

carol, great point! i try really hard not to, but i can't guarantee i don't tense at all.

teagan actually usually alerts to things before me (us in the park: luc: WHOO! i'm chasing my shadow! HA! I GOT IT! OMG! it moved! there it is! me: heh heh luc....watcha doing teagan?....what is it? oh.... teagan: that car pulled over next to the park and i'm watching it. ) she has two kinds of alert - the 'something needs to be watched' alert, like a person entering the park, or something unusual like the car pulling over and stopping. she stays calm but is very aware. her 'there's another dog' alert means she is tense and alert, even if the dog is at that moment out of our sight - as long as there is a dog in the area, teagan doesn't relax.

part of this i wonder - i know people have said she is dominant/has issues w/dominance, and that certainly is true, i'm reading the other end of the leash at the moment and i really wonder - i think teagan was allowed to be dominant at her old home, but i wonder if she's not actually what's described as an 'alpha wanna-be' - always trying to gain status and willing to fight for it. i can't help but wonder if she were truly dominant she'd be calm, confident, and assertive around other dogs, instead of what appears confident, but also a 'if you don't show me the utmost respect and submission, i will rip your throat out' combined with 'i am a physical presence to reckoned with, and you'd better know it'. she has started to accept me as the leader/alpha, we're not perfect, but i'm also trying to work that in to her reaction and behaviour with other dogs, and how i respond.

now, i've become more aware of other dogs from her, and i think it's very possible that i feed off her body language and she feeds off mine and we're creating a bit of a loop situation. like i said, i try hard not to, but i do think i need to work on it.

b/c you are right, teagan is an extremely observant dog, and that includes of me.

certain dogs i really like and am pretty sure i have only positive body language with (like holly, a 13 yo standard poodle who almost died over xmas....teagan reacted to her a week and a half ago, which shocked me, b/c holly is submissive and old and i really wasn't expecting it).

that said, maybe i shouldn't even be bothering trying to have her socialize closer to other dogs - in general, i don't want either luc or teagan associating with other dogs. i don't know, it's just every now and then i feel peer-pressure that she should at least be able to get near other dogs.

in crowded situations, i have been using the muzzle. i want to be able to take her into a variety of situations, and think this is a good compromise - safety but she gets the exposure. her nose keeps popping out of the muzzle i have so i plan to buy a nice proper leather muzzle from leerburg for her.

so you think it's probably mostly body language feedback, rather than leash length? that actually makes me feel better even though leash length would be easier to fix.

like david, i really like the control the traffic lead gives me, and i like the idea, for a dog like her, that she sticks close to me and is more cued to me, rather than making decisions herself. but i'm going to have to be very careful about body language as a result. carol's example with ember is familiar. b/tw the two dogs, i dislike having other dogs around - i protect luc from other dogs, and i protect other dogs from teagan. i've started trying to talk really cheerfully and positively if a strange dog enters the area, b/c if i'm sending it out externally, it rubs off internally.

david - it always amazes me that like your dog, teagan is fine w/luc but not with any other dog. i think it's b/c luc has no interest in challenging her, and i also feel that teagan seems to be very pack oriented, for all that she's an independent thinker - luc was once hurt and i didn't realize it and was trying to put on his backpack and we got into a bit of a fight (stupid me!) and she went after him, getting in his face and nipping his back legs. i think she thought she needed to enforce proper behaviour within our pack, and structure, and that i was above luc so he needed to behave. i think part of why she's a dog-aggressive dog who is fine w/her other pack dog is personality match, as well as the pack unit thing. it's weird but good.

anyways, sorry, this is a ridiculously long reply....

No problem. Thanks for posting. It's calming to know that I'm not the only one who has this issue.

Can so relate to feeding off of each other...I see a dog, she sees the dog, I say "Good Girl" while all the time thinking I hope she doesn't go nuts. Working on me more right now. She is ultra aware of my mood. Don't show a lot of emotion and can hold stuff back pretty well. Just remember one time I got upset, didn't say anything, but she got all nervous and was trying to calm me while the other dogs didn't even flinch. It sounds like you have the same type of bond with yours which IMO is good.

One thing that I just found that worked this week was instead of saying good girl, I use the word "Terrific". For me, good girl can carry so many different tones and meanings. Terrific is a little different and causes me to focus and carries a different meaning and energy. Hopefully will get to try this out this weekend at the park with other dogs. Usually take both leashes and will see if there is a difference.

As far as getting close to other dogs, I've been working on just having her be able to see them. I think over time you will be able to get closer and have her act the way you want. My goal is to just be able to take her to a park, walk the trails with her under control. As you already I'm sure know it is two steps forward, one back. Made huge progress with people and things (manhole covers, utility access plate, kids jungle gym), so I know it is possible. Just need to put the time in as I'm sure you already know and do.

This is just what has worked with me. There is so much great information out on this site. Will keep trying and I believe that something will eventually work!

Recently I have had trouble with my !5 month old GSD zeroing in on dogs,bicycle riders,joggers and anything else that moves while walking in the park. Two months ago this problem never existed. My trainer thinks I am holding on to the leash, pulling him away and causing the aggression. So, I would see him zero in and I would make sure ther was slack in the leash.Then I would try to look away--- didn't work. Next I tried to give him a treat and distract him with a down command...Ha! Ha! Yesterday I put his pinch collar on and when he zeroed in I nailed him. After 30 minutes with a lot of distractions (the park was busy) he started to get the message. I'm sure we will have to continue to work on this.

Patty

well this morning i figured out what really puts her in a good sunny mood while walking....singing to her. now i just have to build up the courage to do it when people (and their dogs) are around.

(when i get home, luc is always at the head of the stairs, jumping from foot to foot, wagging his tail, grinning, and we have a nice hello, and then i go to the washroom before i take the dogs out. but i wanted to make teagan have something special too, so i open her crate, and she gets petted and loved while i sing her songs about how great she is and she really likes it, so apparently now she just likes me singing....only a dog!)

her primary issue is not human aggression - at least not when she's in a prong, though she dislikes being petted without her initiating it. i did train her that baring her teeth at people is NOT allowed when we worked on having people pet her - they'd always pet luc first, i tell teagan it was okay, i think where it fell down is that people rarely properly let her sniff their hand and they usually tried to pet OVER her head....anyways! tonight a woman complimented me on how well behaved (both dogs, technically, but teagan) were, and asked to pet them. since she was next to luc, i said, sure, but then she reached out to teagan. who i've been working on not whipping her head up at people, now that's she's mastered not baring her teeth. teagan looked at the lady's hand, and even let her pet her once. no bad reaction!!!! she wasn't excited, but she was well-behaved. mind you, this lady, whether by accident or design, didn't do a 'sniffpet' but actually held her hand out for a few moments, and petted the side of teagan's head, not the top. but i was still proud!

edit: also, david, yeah....i realized how generic i've made 'good' and 'great' for the dogs....luc is still like 'I AM!!!!! OMG! EVERYTHINGS GREAT!' but teagan is like 'yeah yeah yeah'.

edit b/c i posted in the wrong thread. oops!

Jennifer, that is great! Congratulations! A goal I'm working toward with Sasha. It's encouraging seeing other people's success.

Had Sasha down to the park yesterday. It was amazing, like she was a totally different dog. Saw a couple of dogs, gave her level 1 type corrections and she was fine. There was a little Jack who was challenging her at the end of the leash. That took a little stronger correction, but it was fine.

All of this has really taught me how to read body language a lot better. Still have a long way to go, but making progress, step by step.

Again, congratulations!

i was quite pleased!

i guess one thing i'm lucky w/in respect to teagan (well, maybe) - different than sasha anyways - is she doesn't get dominant aggressive w/small dogs (20-30lbs and under), just the larger ones.

....she thinks the smaller ones are fancy squirrels :rolls eyes: so she's still aggressive, just for a different reason. but i prefer prey aggression to the dominance/dog aggression.