Quote: Ana Kozlowsky

Melissa, if we ban everything that is not explicitly permitted the world would be a very sad place, don't you think?

We already live with the results of the stupidity of others around us. I can't own chickens on my own property because someone decided about 15 years ago in my neighborhood to not clean up after them. I can't buy pseudoephedrine without being carded, I can't buy propane without having my ID checked, I have to have my septic inspected yearly by a county official, I can't set off fireworks whenever I feel like it, I have to buy a $200 dog license yearly, I have to use a catch card for crab, and I have to carry insurance for uninsured drivers. All of these things are because someone, somewhere, sometime didn't take care of things on their own. Why would I expect my dogs to be special in this matter?

Why not require a dog-ownership license based on some kind of basic competency--like currently exists to drive a car or motorcycle? Just daydreaming...but what if one had to demonstrate they had the skills to safely own a dog in order to keep it, same way a person has to be able to demonstrate they can parallel park.

I agree with all of Melissa's ideas about the sources of problems---and I like her ideas about grassroots efforts. But I don't see how "people" in the abstract can do anything to stop a backyard breeder, since, like an insurance company, they are simply trying to make a buck within the confines of the law.

The responsible arm of the dog community already abhors these things, speaks and writes about them, and sponsors all kinds of positive things. But in order to change the behavior of either insurance companies or BYBs requires the power of law. Whining that turns into a petition for legislation (such as what's currently going on in my state of Missouri against puppy mills) is a step in the right direction.

but who gets to decide the liscensing requirements?? if its the AR freaks, few of us would be "qualified", for any number of reasons(omg, you use a prong, bike your dog, train it, ask it to sit when it doesn't want to, feed it meat, don't vaccinate,didn't rescue it, blah blah blah).

and i know, its just dreaming, but when people DO honestly throw out those ideas, and some places start listening, we can't forget WHO decides the requirements, its most likely NOT going to be someone who has a down to earth and realistic view of dogs. Its going to be the same people that want your dog taken away because you put it in a kennel run outside for 3 hours, the same people that stop you on the sidewalk during a walk and yell at you because your dog has balls. The same people that assume the leerburg site is full of animal abusers because Ed has how to fit a prong demos and sells e-collars.

 Quote: tracy collins

The responsible arm of the dog community already abhors these things, speaks and writes about them, and sponsors all kinds of positive things. But in order to change the behavior of either insurance companies or BYBs requires the power of law. Whining that turns into a petition for legislation (such as what's currently going on in my state of Missouri against puppy mills) is a step in the right direction.

What I was truly trying to get at is that prevention is better than cure. If we truly kept our crap in our own yard as a society there would be no need or desire for these kinds of laws. IMO there is very little out reach on the whole by dog breeders/clubs to groups of people who I would consider "problems" but rather instead we bitch about them as being bad examples. We complain about kids harassing dogs but do nothing to tell them how to behave around a dog. We complain about laws that impact us when we didn't create the problem that the law is focused on but did nothing to try to fix it before it got to the city council.

People have become so removed from the "natural" world. Half seem to think a dog is a child, the other half a predator, and everyone wants to tell everyone else what to do.
One bitch and litter= a backyard breeder,bad. 3 bitches+litters=puppy mill, bad.
One bitch, finished championship, pups worth lots of money, OFA great, eyes done
had vet cut off all tails at 3 days and crop ears, pups wore eliz. collar for wks, basically tortured for 2 wks at a really formative stage in life, this is a "great person".
SAYS WHO? A breeder with a PLAN . A plan for what? Who says what's a "quality dog"?

Betty, cattle and other livestock are easier because you can eat your mistakes. Dogs and cats are a bit more difficult and subject to opinion because if the breeder makes a mistake the dog pays for it for the rest of it's life which in this country can be either quite long or quite short possibly filled with pain or neural deficits. If I simply started euthanizing puppies at 7 weeks because their temperament was a genetic nerve bag or their confirmation was questionable to the point of unhealthy there would be public outcry, but a breeder that mass produces puppies with temperaments so crappy the dog is euthanized at 12 months or has to be PTS at 18 months for genetic diseases gets a pass? The best solution is prevention through parent screening and making a commitment to the life of that puppy for good or bad which is exactly what BYBs and puppymills don't do. That raises the stakes at least in this country. I won't get into what I think of disconnect between confirmation shows role in dog breeding and a quality dog life.

I agree with all you say.
It's just my experience, I mean what I saw of genetic defects, allergies, bad hips, bad temperaments, bad eyes,seizures, all of it, come from some "breeding program". They were almost all registered dogs. I can't think of a single blind/seizure/early lame/rotten ear/frightful skin/crazy mean/squeeze these anal glands AGAIN mutt.
We saw plenty of mutts hit by cars, accidents, and diseases of old age.
Maybe we never had any true quality breeders who came into our office! It was mainly a LA practice-at least in the 80s it was--