Quote: Norman Epstein

All show pure breeds are affected to a greater or lessor degree. Have you looked at the AKC Cocker Spaniel or the Neapolitan Mastiff or any mastiff for that matter. All pure breeds for the most part are caricature’s of what they once were. .

Well put Norman. I was watching the Westminster this year and just shook my head in astonishment at the Working Group, b/c NONE of the breeds showcased are capable of any work that they were intended for, and of the few breeds that do, the individuals come from stock that is so far removed from the AKC Showring that they may as well be a separate breed.

 Quote: John Haudenshield

 Quote: Norman Epstein

All show pure breeds are affected to a greater or lessor degree. Have you looked at the AKC Cocker Spaniel or the Neapolitan Mastiff or any mastiff for that matter. All pure breeds for the most part are caricature’s of what they once were. .

Well put Norman. I was watching the Westminster this year and just shook my head in astonishment at the Working Group, b/c NONE of the breeds showcased are capable of any work that they were intended for , and of the few breeds that do, the individuals come from stock that is so far removed from the AKC Showring that they may as well be a separate breed.

I understand your general point and Normans too, but how could you conclude this watching those dogs moving in a circle indoors on TV? None John? Not one dog could pull a sled or anything?

 Quote: steve strom

I understand your general point and Normans too, but how could you conclude this watching those dogs moving in a circle indoors on TV? None John? Not one dog could pull a sled or anything?

That husky looked pretty capable to me... I was actually pretty impressed with it.

 Quote: norman epstein

Please read the following now famous study by Dr. Jeffrey Bragg "Purebred Dog Breeds into the Twenty-First Century: Achieving Genetic Health for Our Dogs"

the bragg article is really good! it's long, but worth the read. i've read it, and posted it, several times;just hoping that people will take one or two 'take-aways.'

i'll have to go read the crufts article now....

 Quote:

If someone wants a Golden Retriever, great, go get one. Don't find a Golden-like Dobe, Rott, GSD, Mal, or Giant Schnauzer...then breed it to create more Paper Tigers.

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Exactly!

 Quote: norman epstein

Moreover I don't think breeding just for type and forsaking function has helped any breed. Even lap dogs have to have the stability to sit still for a time.

Couldn´t agree with you more. But I also think that completely forsaking the appearance is not the way to go. If it is the looks that the "150+ breed experts" value is another story. A malinois can work but a GSD shouldn´t look like a mal. The caracteristics described in the breed standard were originally put down keeping in mind the work that the dog had to do. Unfortunately with time and the loss of original work, the judges and breeders and newbies to the breed that don´t know the value of the conformational traits, have been able to exaggerate or lose traits turning the breed showrings into some freakshow that some people actually claim to like.

I don´t know about GSDs who probably have one of the greatest separation in the lines, but there are dobermanns that can do actual work and do well in shows. They might not be the showstoppers that place on BISs but they meet the standard and can climb an A-frame with a dumbbell without having a heart attack. Where I live, dobes aren´t used in service work because bad weather that doesn´t bother a GSD or mal very much, will be a problem for a dobe. It isn´t much but my dogs mother was a rather successful drugsniffer and conformation champion of Latvia. It is also hard to evaluate the dogs working quality if none are used in actual service. People do IPO but how much is worth of a IPO3 title after several years of straining work by a proffessional?