Quote: mike j schoonbrood

If you do go Beth's route, my only warning is to watch out for trainers that will "do what it takes" to get a showline dog to "work." There's lots of idiots out there who like to flank and whip dogs that aren't suited for the work in order to make them bite so the owners are happy.

Some dogs just aren't cut out for it no matter which way you turn it.

Mike, you already know I agree with you. Forced work (IMO) isn't the only (or in my case, desireable) answer either, but sometimes one must consider that route. I will say "no" for my dogs, but Hello Reality.

There is a whole lot to Schutzhund sport that IS NOT protection work. If someone came here with a 3 year old dog for an evaluation, Dave would have a lot to say, as he always does about what he thinks he sees in the dogs genetics, as well as in the dog's socialization(training / home life / experience).

Schutzhund is still a 3 phased sport.

There is not a single dog I've seen here for an evaluation that couldn't benefit from some basic work in tracking and/or drive based OB and/or prey drive based PR foundatation. Most of the evaluation dogs we see here benefit immensely from more structure in training, and more devoted training time (even 15 minutes a day - that is DEVOTED to their training), and more crate time to go with it, than dogs who don't get either on a consistent basis.

But here on Leerburg this is preaching to the choir - I know.

I suppose my message is for those who have taken up an interest in Schutzhund sport long before or after "good timing" with a puppy of any caliber. Take the dog you have, and go learn as much as you can with that dog. Practice. Especially TR and OB -you can take your trainer's input and improve those with your own work at home.

Hook up with a trainer who can help you weekly with your pup, no matter what.

IMO, that's how your puppy gets the best possible chance. That's how I will do it if *I* ever take on a puppy with an express Schutzhund title goal.

(I stand by the Tracking of my Beagle Buck, who I believe can SchH1 track, even though that's totally Urban Legend.)

Beth

Generally a dogs temperament carries over into every phase of the work. If the dog is not driven enough you can still work the dog, but if you really want to do everything required of an IPO1 then the dog will not enjoy it. Alot will have to be forced. A focused heel with a dog that isn't easily motivated means you are compulsioning the focus, for example.

There are dogs that can track and do OB but just arent good at biting, but that is a whole different type of dog than one who just isn't driven or focused enough. So as I always end my posts with: It depends on the dog.

If the purpose of a second dog is schutzhund, a working line dog is they only way to go. Yes, there are showlines that can do schutzhund but when I'm purchasing a dog I want to stack the odds in my favor.

If I remember the op first post, he wants the dog for sport.

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

So as I always end my posts with: It depends on the dog.

ITA.

Beth

Wow, I guess now I know why so many people consider me insane. I am quite young with two small kids, a 3 year old dobermann and a new pup planned. I guess I am pretty crazy to take all that on but I know I can and I have a hubby that is there for me (kind of old fashioned here- if he tells no, then it is a mans word but I guess he can be a bit crazy too). It wasn´t a problem for me to go to protection training 7 months pregnant or fill tracks with food at 9 months. But this is me. There are people that are not going to do this and this is normal.

Another thing that has not been pointed out here is that as much as it depends on the wife and if she is willing to take some of the load of taking care of the new pup, it depends a great deal of the baby. If it is a calm child that adapts well to different situations and sleeps alot (as babies should) it will be a whole lot easier than if the baby has colics, is highly disturbed with the slightes changes in the daily routine and cries alot. Unfortunately this can´t be foreseen. Even different babies from the same parents can differ alot. With a normal happy baby the first 6 months to a year (after moms initial recovery ofcourse) is not so hard because the baby sleeps alot and does it well in different situations (my older kid has slept beside the tracking, obedience and protection field, on showgrounds and played at the sides of each as well- toy dogs need training too, right). But all babies aren´t like that. What are you going to do if your little one is making mommy dance with her all day to keep him quiet?

Though I understand you completely- I also was not planning to take a pup this year but with this breeding they just did.... I have met both dogs personally in their homes (and know the males mother as well), I have trained together with the males owner (and she has taught me the most I know about dog training), I know the problems and the strong points of both dogs and I think it is a promising combination that could suit me perfectly (though I whould have picked another male out of the same female but a whole litter of brown dobies is not very favorable).
A dreamy breeding is a great temptation but gather some information from experienced people on how much time working a dog in specific age takes and think very carefully if you have the time even if the baby turns out to be not so calm. I whould probably consider not having one of the pups with very high energy and the best drives- it probably will be easier if all doesn´t go as planned and I personally feel very responsible to the breeder to give my 100% if I take the first pick of the litter and whould feel very stressed if I can´t do that because it is natural that the baby is a parents number one priority.