I have owned many dogs over the years- terriers, working dogs and hounds. Most of these dogs have been older rescue dogs, for the most part. I have successfully raised a Rottweiler from puppyhood in the past. She remained, to this day, the single best dog we ever owned. We have also raised a terrier puppy who had issues with aggression at a very young age. The puppy was bitten at the age of 5 weeks by an adult dog, and it imprinted anxiety and fear aggression that was nearly impossible to deal with. Sadly, we put this dual titled dog down at the age of 10 for dog aggression.
We are purchasing a Doberman puppy soon. This dog is going to be trained for historic remains detection. Currently, we own only two dogs, and both of them are very very old. One is a Smooth Fox bitch, about 17 plus years old. The other is a Whippet, about 14 plus years old. Both are rescue dogs. Both are NOT crate trained but housebroken. When the Smooth Fox passes on, I feel we could adapt the Whippet to a crate, but it will not be easy. Anyway, I digress.
My main concern in bringing a Doberman puppy into this setting is I do not want to set up the puppy to feel he is less valued/important than the old dogs. The puppy will be crate trained, housebroken, and spend significant amounts of time with me, personally, in training, traveling, etc. The old dogs sleep on the bed, wander the house, in general just hang out. They sleep most of the time. Clearly, a puppy is not going to be following this route. I am comfortable in our ability to do all training for a puppy to ensure success, but I am not clear on how to integrate this new puppy into this scenario. Perhaps I am anthropromorphizing my human feelings on what dogs might feel. However, I do not ever want to repeat the aggression issues we had with the dog we put down. We lived with dog aggression for over 9 years, and I don't ever want to do that again.
I have ordered the video on pack order ( and a friend of mine has it as well) but I don't believe it addresses a scenario such as this.
Any light that an experienced person can shed on this would be appreciated.
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this forum and, in particular, all the extraordinary information on the web site, in general.
Thanks. Bonnie

I brought a GSD into a house with a 5 year old and a 3 yr old dog. The older dogs have total freedom of the house, alloud on the furniture, can go wherever they want on the property.... From day 1 the pup has had a total different set of rules than the other two.

I do not believe they compare themselves to each other. What I think would be confusing is inconsistancy. It has been six months and the pup doesn't seem to know there are two sets of rules. He just knows what is expected of him.

Michelle, I appreciate your feedback. What you said is what I envision. The two old dogs are not challenging in any way. They pretty much just exist. It was a tough road to travel with the dog we put down. We made the right decision, but hindsight being 20/20, I would have rehomed him years before. He was my first champion and also had an earthdog title, working on a second one, when we put him down. Lessons are always learned the hard way though. I do not want any negative energy, on my part, being transferred down the leash to a new puppy. Thanks again. Bonnie

 Quote: Bonnie Guzman

My main concern in bringing a Doberman puppy into this setting is I do not want to set up the puppy to feel he is less valued/important than the old dogs. The puppy will be crate trained, housebroken, and spend significant amounts of time with me, personally, in training, traveling, etc. The old dogs sleep on the bed, wander the house, in general just hang out. They sleep most of the time. Clearly, a puppy is not going to be following this route. I am comfortable in our ability to do all training for a puppy to ensure success, but I am not clear on how to integrate this new puppy into this scenario. Perhaps I am anthropromorphizing my human feelings on what dogs might feel. However, I do not ever want to repeat the aggression issues we had with the dog we put down.

The aggression was caused by the attack on the puppy not by the dog's place in the pack. If you establish the proper pack structure the dogs will know that fighting isn't allowed. Of course the puppy will be on a very short chain (both figuratively and literally). That's to be expected for a new pack member. Over time as he learns to behave around the older dogs you can allow more freedom. This will insure he isn't bitten by the older dogs and doesn't learn aggression toward dogs. The pack leader (you) will be in charge and teaching the pup not to bother the older pack members and you will determine who will fight and when. That's in a pack leader's job description.

Yes you are likely anthropomorphizing (sp?). It's a common misconception. When humans hear about pack structure they think it means a bullied devalued dog who wishes he had it as good as the older established pack members. This isn't so in a dog's point of view. Dogs are exactly the opposite. When they know their place in the pack (no matter what that place is) and have a pack leader who promotes discipline and fairness they are much happier and better adjusted dogs no matter what their rank.

Also a note on fairness. Fairness isn't every dog getting the same thing it's every dog getting what he or she needs. That's a concept I've also heard in a lot of parenting advice. People beat themselves up because puppy can't run and frolic outside his crate all day long but remember a puppy needs to learn structure while the older dogs have that down. They don't need structure and the puppy doesn't need to run wild. Each dog is getting what they need and/or have earned. Once puppy learns it then puppy can have more freedom. Nothing unfair about that.