Thanks for the advice guys. The food method is definitly working much better than any toy ever did! He gives me so much more focus and drive with food. I would still like to develop his prey drive to a higher level. I will watch the dvd one of these days when I can get around to a friends house who has it.

You say I shouldn't be doing much control work with him now; What do you suggest we do in a 10 min training session then? Should He just be heeling and not doing any downs and sits in motion etc or what exactly do you mean?

Thanks

If it were me, I would want to back up to basics and just do drive building, happy stuff. I would want to get him to the point where he enjoyed a few minutes of ob, I would heel him for a few seconds, big verbal & tidbit of food reward without stopping. Sometimes while heeling (at a fast pace) suddenly turn and back up real fast and calling him into you, stuff like that. If you start right back up with sit &/or down out of motion, you might lower his drive right back down. Just do real happy stuff and remember to quit while he is still drivey.

I think it is great that you have found something that works for your dog!

Not all dogs work well in prey drive. Period. But you can always work with what you have and bring what is there up to its peak. But for now, what does he like to play with? Will he play fetch at all with anything? Just for fun? Will he play with a towel or a rag? Many Rotts love to grab a rag and shake it to death. Don’t do ANY OB work at all with his toys. Just play and have a ton of fun for HIM. Do the wiggle on the ground thing or tie it to a thin rope and swing it just enough just outside of his reach so he gets a little frustrated and wants it sooooo bad (but don’t overdo it with this, he need to win win win as much as possible). If he’ll tug, even for a split second, let him pull it through your hands with just a tad of resistance. Tell him in a very happy voice how wonderful he is. If he drops it, just play some more. If he won’t drop it, pet him and stroke him and tell him he is great. Kinda touch (at first) then gently tug the toy in his mouth WITH OUT taking it from him, and tell him how great he is. Eventually you can work into active tugging and letting him win.

I have found that 50% of this is the handler’s ability to play correctly with their dog. I am one of them. My training director can bring the drive up in my dog with just a look. He will get as crazy as any GSD. With me, he gets bored ‘cause I don’t do it right.

As for your OB today, you can do sits and downs, but keep it all very up beat and fun. Lots of treats, and few to no corrections for a while. If clicker training sounds like a bit much for you, think of it as “marker” training. When he does it right, “mark” it with a “YES!” or some other sound or word. It’s a, “Yea! You got it right just then!” kind of moment. Most dogs try to figure out how to get the treat faster and faster. And don’t think of it as, “He isn’t doing it right, I have to make him.” For now it is all about fun and making him want to play with you. Susan’s idea of fast heeling with quick recalls is exactly what you should be doing with him for a while.

Short version: All fun prey drive building with NO OB work, and super fun OB work with few corrections and LOTS of yummy treats! Both with many short, 5-10 min (at the most) blasts.

Just all MHO

Good luck

Maybe there is a little bit of a Rottweiler thing here. Was Quinn always pretty food driven and has learned about toys and play as a reward as you worked with him Jessica?

Yes and no. Quinn is VERY food driven. And I have used that to do all of the base work and precision work with his OB. He has also always been very prey driven, but more in the “I wanna chase everything that moves and grab it and kill it” way. He’ll chase anything that is thrown and bring it back every time, and do it until he collapses. BUT to “engage” with me, i.e. really tugging and attack a ball-on-a-string or tug, not so much. Quinn would do it for a sec, then sit back with a look like, “are you done yet, ‘cause if you are, I’d really like to chase it now.” I have to throw a ball a few times to get that drive up, as opposed to him working with me to bring it up. It comes back to not letting him win enough, and him being smart enough to sit back and wait... Oh, and if I give him an option of food or game of fetch, he'll choose the game every time.

Carl has showed me that I don’t play with him with enough “oomph” to make him want to really work. He can pick up just about anything and that damned Rott will rival the GSDs and Schnauzers’. It is kinda funny when Carl will pick up a tug and play with Quinn, then hand it to me (with dog attached) and Quinn will just deflate. He also says that Quinn does not feel super safe playing with me that way. Almost like he doesn’t want to hurt me or cross the line. He loves me!!

I have found a middle ground. I train with food, and then switch to a ball on a string (and for him it has to be a hard ball) that only comes out for OB work. As his drives come up for me, we go into OB seamlessly. He is as pretty and snappy as they come. He won’t work for the tug (for me) the same way as the ball at all. It took me a while to come to terms with the fact that he has picked the toy he likes. After a month or so, he started to tug with me when in really high drive, but still on the ball.

His desire to do bite work has always been very separate from the drive for the ball in OB. They have never been similar, but then it is not me he is playing with, but Carl, Rich or Eric.

It all comes back to my faults as a handler. He has everything he needs to kick butt, I just need to step up my game… I hate when it is my fault!

LOL, we're learning Jessica. We'll get there!! LOL.