Quote: Melissa Charles

He ducked around a railing and I was untangling him, which meant making him walk back around the railing...he tucked his tail btwn his legs, ducked his head and then growled at me. No idea wth brought it on, I was speaking in a nice tone, wasn't upset with him at all, nada. Just the fact that I had to get him to retrace his steps had him reacting.

Were you bending over him at the time?

Crouched in front...he was on the steps, I wasn't, so he was at about eye level, if not a bit over me.

First of all, I really think you need to stop being int he room when he is fed, and so do your kids. You may not think anything bad has happened to him, but he is acting defensively and a bit fearfully, so he needs to be given the ability to eat in peace.
Find a place where he can just be left alone completely while he eats. this means that from that point on, you won't KNOW what order he eats his food in, what position he is in, nothing. He needs to eat in peace.
Second, what you are describing on the porch again seems like a fearful response. You may not think you were intimidating, but his behavior that you are describing sounds like he was scared, and fearful. Dogs growl to warn when they are fearful. I would chalk it up to a bad situation that he got nervous in and move on, trying to not repeat that scenario again. All in all, what I am seeing you describe does not sound like a dog that is too far gone, or having weak nerves, just a very confused dog that doesn't understand the rules of the pack it is in. That makes for a very scared, nervous dog. Nervous dogs do aggressive things. Until you get that video and are able to read some more about dog behavior, and what causes certain things, and talking/asking questions, I'd just keep doing what you are doing, and keep interactions with the dog to a minimal for a few days or so to allow you to read up. This will give the dog a break and allow him to recognise that the rules are changing as well.

Wow this thread went in every direction really fast. Shows me for being busy!

Melissa, I can understand your concerns and your fears. You are physically handicapped and limited for time right now on top of never having dealt with this kind of behavior before. It's scary when you have a dog you don't think you can control and small children in the same house. So far you have done very well and kudos to you for wanting to try and asking questions.

I do agree that for now he should be left alone to eat. To comment, when he got stuck in the railing and you were trying to get him to retrace his steps, that can be scary for a dog! He knows he is trapped and all he realizes is you are pulling on him. I need to go back through and read this whole thread before I say anymore, though.

He is left alone, but his crate is on the main level of the house, in the corner of the living room. I guess I'll get hubby to move it to the basement, thats about the only place I can think of where he'd be totally alone. I hate that idea, to be honest, but if its what will work, then that's what we'll do.

 Quote: Melissa Charles

He is left alone, but his crate is on the main level of the house, in the corner of the living room. I guess I'll get hubby to move it to the basement, thats about the only place I can think of where he'd be totally alone. I hate that idea, to be honest, but if its what will work, then that's what we'll do.

I have to go back. Wasn't there a situation with the toddler near the crate and the dog being food-aggressive? Is the corner of the living room a new spot since then?

A corner of the living room with no one near the crate (meaning no one walking in front of it, staring inside it, addressing the dog, etc.) should be fine.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

... It's scary when you have a dog you don't think you can control and small children in the same house. So far you have done very well and kudos to you for wanting to try and asking questions.

... when he got stuck in the railing and you were trying to get him to retrace his steps, that can be scary for a dog! He knows he is trapped and all he realizes is you are pulling on him.

Yes, 100%!

And GOOD CATCH. I totally missed the "stuck" part.

From what I read yesterday, I honestly didn't see a dog with nerve issues. But just to double-check (because obviously I missed stuff ), wasn't there a period when he first came when there was no problem? A "honeymoon" period?

Then you saw what sounds like fear-aggression on a walk and then the food-in-crate situation.

Were there other episodes? If so, can you describe them?

You mentioned hand-shy. Is that with you and your husband, who are generally tethered to him when he's out of the crate, or others?

And I'm sorry if I missed this: Does he get any short daily positive ob training?

The 'honeymoon period' is what I was referring to in the title, lol! He's always been hand shy. From day one. Me and my husband were the only ones that have been allowed to interact with him, petting etc, and he's always ducked and attempted to run. Even giving him a treat, he'd duck away from your hand. Just in the last few days our almost 10 yr old has been allowed to walk him due to my not being able to take the littles in the wagon (rain, nap) The growling in the crate is something that's new, as is him lunging at the person on our walk. He also loses his mind when he spots another dog, barking lunging to the point he's hanging himself. These are dogs that are just within visual sight, no dog close to him at all. Its like the more settled in he's getting, the more he's exhibiting some of these behaviours that concern me.

Oh, and I wasn't pulling on him. I had my hand on his side, guiding him around the railing, talking to him in a calm manner. We do OB when we're out on walks with him, sans kids. The park we go to has pretty deserted areas, so we go there. I do some in the house after the kids are in bed too, or naptime...short bursts here and there.

Edited by Melissa Charles (07/11/2008 01:06 PM)
Edit reason: adding info

What kind of Ob?

Marker training, or what?

The lunging on a walk might not have been triggered by someone brushing past or looming over the dog, or who knows what, until someone did.

You've had him a month? How recently was the walk when he lunged, etc.?

The dog thing. Is that new too? He saw dogs before and did not react?

Its the only time we've been on a walk where someone's gone by us. The park we go to is pretty deserted, esp in the field areas that aren't the playground. Same thing with the dog issue. Its not often that we run into them or by them at all, but its a consistant reaction.

As far as the OB training does, we're working on recall mainly, sit...food rewards. Started out with the 'hand touch' to load 'yes'. The DVDs just arrived, so I have to watch the OB one still.