Currently, there are no Schutzhund clubs in my area. There is however a PSA club and I am wondering if anyone has any experience with this association and your thoughts on it, as I am looking for a good club to train my dog in protection and obedience.

Regards,
Al Lewis

PSA looks like a fun sport. Go to the club and see if you like the people and how they train, thats the only way you'll know.

Love it... PSA 1 is a phenominal test of what's IN a dog in terms of nerve and drive. PSA 2 and 3 change from this and become a complex test of controllability and training. It's incredible to watch, and very challenging so should keep you entertained for a lifetime.

PSA folks are also just great people. It's a small organization (relatively speaking) and SOMETIMES you will find judging inconsistent and frustrating. This is something PSA is working on, and I only mention it because if you are "point-obsessed" you will likely prefer something more structured like French Ring. PSA is young, and it is evolving.

I think that if you can look past the newness and (relative) lack of organization (clubs and officials are always doing their best, but working with people is like trying to herd cats) then there's no better test of nerves combined with obedience under distraction available to us in North America.

The biggest criticism of PSA is that the obedience isn't as demanding as SchH. Rest assured it is, but it is so in a different way. A dog can pass without pretty obedience if the dog is controlled among distractions. And distractions are many. In PSA 1 a suited decoy drops distractions near/on your dog during a down stay. I have seen everything from balls to big garbage cans used. If you like the pretty obedience of SchH, there's nothing wrong with demanding a higher degree of precision from YOUR dog.

One other point: Be aware of what could be used as a retrieve item as you train your dog. In one PSA competition I know of years ago, the dogs had to retrieve a thrown hot dog! I think some rules may have been adjusted since it started up, but if I am not mistaken an exercise like this is still very valid. It is quite literally the opposite of SchH's sterility and pattern.

Have fun!

Mike & Jennifer -

Thanks for your thoughts and insights. I have read the goal and various testings of the different levels of the organizations. I will definitely go to the club and check it out. Do either of you know if titling a dog in PSA is widely recognized. I ask for two reasons, the first is I want to test my ability to train and work with my dog, but I also intend to breed my dog and I think titles are a way of demonstrating certain qualities and abilities in that dog. Any additional thoughts would be great. Thanks again.

-Al

Al,
PSA is a very small sport and as Jennifer said, they'd had some problems with "judging inconsistent" ( basically with either board members or other judges always seeming to win trials ) - so the titles mean something, but aren't recognized by most of the other dog training sport organizations.

don't know or care much about the politics but PSA has been my sport of choise for the past year and enjoy the training. Check them out and have fun

 Quote: will rambeau

Al,
PSA is a very small sport and as Jennifer said, they'd had some problems with "judging inconsistent" ( basically with either board members or other judges always seeming to win trials ) - so the titles mean something, but aren't recognized by most of the other dog training sport organizations.

Hi Will & Jennifer, I have been a competitor in PSA trial 4 times, failed at my last 2 attemp for level 2, I found judging to be fair and consistent, this is recently so I don't know how long ago you saw inconsistent in judging, all sports has growing pain, perhaps it is not fair to judge something that was done long ago, and to Al, PSA is a great sport that really test the courage of the dog and the ability to train, so do checking out.
Khoi Pham
http://www.k9workingdogs.org

Saw some of your other posts Al and if you are talking about a Rottie, you may not do very well in PSA. But would bet you have fun and will learn alot. Also which club are you close to, there are 2 in Virginia.

Khoi, I have been involved with PSA since the very beginning, and my dogs and training have evolved with it. The judging CAN BE inconsistent relative to SchH and FR. The original poster should be aware of this. It's a completely unbiased statement, and PSA is actually my favourite sport (I train in FR and Mondio as well). It's not a criticism, just a statement that if someone will find ANYTHING frustrating in PSA, it will be the judging.

Anyway, to answer your question Al, while PSA is extremely valid, no, it isn't widely recognized or respected. Unless you want to breed dogs for PSA. Personally I wouldn't let something like this stop me, because PSA exists BECAUSE of the faults with other (older) sports that are highly respected... Even if they maybe should be less so.

Ultimately if you're asking which title MEANS more, in my dogs a PSA 1 would be worth more than a SchH 3. But that's because I know that the SchH 3 MAY or MAY NOT be a good dog (unfortunately most likely not, since when a SchH dog is REALLY GOOD people talk about him like he's a God... Which is sad, because the whole purpose of SchH was to screen only the good dogs for breeding, period). Anyway, the PSA 1 dog almost invariably will be a good dog, with all the qualities I want for dog sports.

Plus, just a purely superficial statement, but in my experience PSA folks have been less uptight and more fun to hang out with!

Mitch,

I am closest to SassafrasK-9 in Stafford, VA.

-Al