hi,
i have 3 training Q's if anyone can suggest help:

1st--i just got and watched (only once SO FAR) the basic Obed, the Raising a Working pup AND Building drive/focus DVD's...all great.
Jonah, GSD, is not quite 6 months. i take him w/me to wk every day, which is a law ofc in a somewhat busy area of downtown. he is calm and accepting of all the traffic and etc, he has been coming with me since 8 weeks old. however, he has just learned to bark at people while in my vehicle and i have calmly praised it, BUT now he thinks he should bark at ALL people at ALL times and that makes it quite a drama trying to get into the office with him and any # of people in all directions walking past us, across from us, in frt of us--into their buildings. On one hand i do NOT want to discourage this b/c for SchH/PP i will need it. but OTOH how do i gently discourage it in situations where its not appropriate? while i am aware he is ONLY (not quite)6 months, i just need some direction as to how to curb it w/o squelching it altogether. since there are people all over i cant simply change directions to re-direct his attention. i was thinking maybe using his liver treats to hold his attnetion on me rather than everything else??

2nd Q: in the Basic Obed DVD-- of course Mr. Frawley teaches Daema to walk nicely on a leash in about 4 mins flat. it's not sinking in so quickly here! : / does anyone know if that was filmed in real time!? (haha) it looks VERY simple when he does it... Jonah is (at times) WILD like Daema acts in just a few takes when she is jumping/leaping with glee. Jonah wants to GOGOGO.

and 3rd Q: any thoughts/opinions out there on martingale collars made out of small link chain? i used them showing in Breed before, made by Herm Sprenger. i feel like the flat collar isnt as effective as i might need and would prefer not go to a prong this early... unless this age ISN'T too young for that?? help!! (Jonah is about 48 pounds & NOT fat)

thank you in advance for the info and suggestions. SO appreciated!!

(BTW--Jonah still has his splint on. we re-xrayed last Wednesday and the Dr wanted it on another 2 weeks. the separation is on a growth plate, HOWEVER is not on the long one that determines leg length, so it is not as serious of an injry as it could have been).

jen

#2 At that age we were using a prong with Hans. It made a huge difference. Then we worked with a trainer who had us change directions during walking when Hans attention wandered, and issue a correction as we did it. He's pretty good on a leash now.

Thank you Rich.

as a PS, Jonah is extra exuberant these days b/c the splint means VERY limited physical exercise. he's had no full out romps or long walks in almost 3 weeks and he has another week to go. it has NOT been fun.

it seems like the line between "just a puppy/flat collar" and "whoa--he needs to graduate to a prong now" is really thin...? is the time to use it based on size, mental development/age or just when the "need" for it arises?

THANK YOU!!

jen

JMO (and here I steal one of Ed's phrases), if you are not marker training, you should be.

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=100&Number=210827&Searchpage=1&Main=20856&Words=casual+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post210827

 Quote: jennifer kline

it seems like the line between "just a puppy/flat collar" and "whoa--he needs to graduate to a prong now" is really thin...? is the time to use it based on size, mental development/age or just when the "need" for it arises? jen

I'm not sure how to answer that question. A friend of mine came to visit when Hans was about three months old. She brought a small prong collar with her as a gift, and showed me how to put it on. It looked like something out of a Vincent Price movie, and though I thanked her for it, I put it away. There was no way I was going to put one of those things on my dog.

We'd take him out for walks and it was pull, pull, pull. Finally, out of frustration, when he was about five months old, I tried the prong. It was a miracle. He self corrected a couple of times and the pulling got a lot better, but didn't go away. When he was older we took him to a trainer, who taught us the trick of changing directions. That, with the prong, pretty much fixed the problem.

He is dog aggressive, and for that we use a combination of the prong and an e-collar. Even with the prong, if we are taken by surprise by a dog charging a fence while we are out on a walk, Hans faces up and lunges. For that, we need the e-collar to get his attention and get him back to the walk.

Connie,
thx Connie.
i am marker training---but i need to bemore consistent in using it. : }
he is better on the leash w/less distractions of course, but taking him w/me to work like i do, we have to walk thru the environment and the distraction level is too high for where he is at i am sure. i will make an effort to have some rewards with me each morning and see if that helps.
As for the barking, he is offering sits when i am un-locking the door and all sorts of good stuff, its just that he figured out barking got a "good boy" from me so now he thinks its always the right choice. : )

i so appreciate the help!!

jen

Hi Jennifer,

I had the same problem with my GSD. I received great advice that may help you. Check it out. http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/207925/page/0/fpart/1

Enoch isn't perfect but he has improved greatly using some of these suggestions. Hope it helps a little.

Jennifer,
I want to echo Connie here.......Pay more attention to the marker training than anything else at this time. Your dog will be better for it in the end.

As an example: I just attended a seminar where the working area had; now wrap your mind around this, lines of kennels containing reactive dogs, free ranging chickens just going about what chickens do, quite a few strange people lining the field and wandering in and out of the work happening (to hear the lessons), a few rabbit hatches rowed along one end of the ring (and yes, with live rabbits inside), we were a few hundred yards down range of a trap or skeet club (lots of fun noises!), and for the big bonus distraction, a flock of pea hens randomly pecking their way through the arena every few mintues!

Every dog but one (dah, I take the fifth) was totally fixated with, believe it or not, with the handler/owner wanted. And while pinch collars were conspicuous, it was equally obvious that the dogs had not been trained via the collar.........They had been trained with markers!

So revisit your cavalier thinking of; well I started with markers but I'm not real consistent, I'll get back to it sometime or another when I feel like it.............Markers are the way to go!!!!!

If my dog isn't learning, I doing something wrong.
Randy

 Quote: jennifer kline

... he is better on the leash w/less distractions of course, but taking him w/me to work like i do, we have to walk thru the environment and the distraction level is too high for where he is at i am sure. ...

Here is what I would do. I would back up and reinforce the casual heel (whatever your command is) in the house, in various rooms, marking and rewarding. Then I would do the same in the yard, with no distraction, then low-level distractions (maybe another person in the yard), then higher (a dog in the yard), and higher (two dogs? People playing ball?), and so on.

And I would absolutely view the distracting walk to work as a training opportunity. I'd pack great rewards*, and mark/reward at the outside edge of the distraction zone to get his attention way before it's been dragged away from you by the excitement. I'd make these high-distraction rewards correspondingly high-value, like maybe bits of cooked meat (cooked for smell).

* I keep a baggie in the freezer of bits of their raw diet, cooked, bits of string cheese, even the end of a salami I pick up at the deli counter and dice up. I buy no-chemical turkey hot dogs and dice them too.

I put these excellent rewards in with the food rewards here: http://leerburg.com/treat.htm

I like to get the Simon and Huey's, Zuke's, and Grizzly Nu treats (all great size). When I add a few extremely good rewards, the attention sharpens.

When I am proofing for very high distractions (last week, a baseball field with kids, lights, and other dogs), I carry the highest value rewards.

This homemade stuff all thaws very fast because it's so tiny (M&M size).

If you allow extra time in the morning and start marking/rewarding at the edge of the distraction zone, I think that you will see him re-focus --- on you.

THANK YOU so much. all VERY good plans!! and i will read the linked pages today.
i do use cooked liver as high value treats, the Zukes for less important lessons. i think a plan including all of the above will REALLY help me.
as for the marker training--the only time i havent used it consistently is for coming into wk. haha--and see what happened? i will make time to use it then too.
THANKS!!!

jen