Can a Schutzhund dog be trained to track with TTD methods?

I've done a site search here, as well as several other forums, and cannot find a definitive answer.

I have been training my 10 month old Mal in traditional FST/ground disturbance tracks. She is doing well, and the slow, methodical approach is okay, but I like fast trackers much better. Now I realize that ScH tracks are SUPPOSED to be completed slow and methodically. However, my high speed, low drag hound doesn't care, and I think the exercise will be much more pleasant for her if TTD with a reward at the end is used, rather than FST with a treat in every other heel print.

Any suggestions??

Welcome to the fight to slow your dog down.
I've contemplated cinder blocks, because my back is taking a beating.

I get the feeling your dog isn't food driven?
If she is, finding food in the tracks will be just as fun as anything else.

If not, welcome to my world, LOL.
Fasting the dog beforehand can help increase food drive.

If you find a way to train the dog to track FST properly, without food, PLEASE let me know.

I think you are asking, can a FST dog be re-trained as a TTD dog? I believe the answer is yes, if you read the page on Leerburg about tracking through drive (in the testimonials) http://leerburg.com/205.htm - it seems that people have indeed done this with much success.

Although I guess if you want to compete in a sport you probably shouldn't train this way, as you probably wouldn't get any points!

What are your goals in tracking??? If it is schutzhund you need to keep the slow pace and discplined tracks. If yu are looking at practical tracking (police, S&R, etc) then I would pursue a different course. Now, I don't track at a dead run like I see many people do. But I can speed up as necessary and slow down as needed with the practical tracking dog. I also have learned to balance it well enough to get decent scores in schutzhund (generally in the low 90's with the two dogs in which I have trained both practical tracking and titled in schutzhund) But, this can be a difficult balancing act if you are not quite versed in both.

Does it have to be one or the other? Can you train for schutzhund first and then step it up to practical tracking?

HMMMMM, OK, please ignore my last post or feel free to delete it, I seem to be having one of those "trouble reading" days!!!

Zoe is quite food driven. She just likes to run through the track. Her nose is deep, and she rarely wavers from the track.

I guess my main question is whether or not training TTD would be detrimental to Schutzhund scores, as I think she would be much more effective as a fast, prey driven tracker, than a slow, food driven tracker, given the speeds that she runs through a track, and her intensity for the ball/tug. Thanks for the answer to that Kevin!

However, on that same note, I would like for her to be versed in practical tracking, in case the situation ever arose. I suppose I will try to balance the 2, using only food-baited FST in our Schutzhund tracks, and put prey at the end of some ground disturbance patterns in our practical tracks.

Thanks for the help, and chime in if anyone thinks that my methods are adverse, or knows of some better way to approach the situation.

In my limited experience, if you are training for SCH scores, and not JUST to title, then yes, TTD can be detrimental.

Once the dog realizes that they don’t have to look in Every. Single. Step. It is hard to convince them to do it. Like Kevin said (and he knows WAY more than I do) it can bring the scores down; you can still title, but probably won’t get V rated for it. If you ever get a chance to watch a 100 point track, that dog has a head that sways back and forth like a pendulum, and is really deep, slowish and methodical. TTD is almost the opposite…

I really don’t see why you would not want to train FST first, and then introduce TTD. That seems to be the preferred method for most that do TTD on a SCH dog. If you are uninterested in seriously pursuing SCH, and are doing it for fun, then enjoy! And do what works best for your dog. Just be prepared for potential training problems that pop up.

Now I have NO experience in SAR, so if that is your route, ask you group or some of the SAR people here.

Hope I didn’t ramble too much…

I think That's how I will do it. After talking to some of the K-9 guys, I feel it best to do FST first, then when she has a solid foundation, move on to the TTD stuff.