I recently talked to a breeder about the growing number of sudden deaths in young age in the dobermann breed. She thinks that DCM is not as big of a problem as is overfeeding and underexercise of show dobermanns. I think I know how to get it right in an adult, but I asked about how it whould be correct to exercise and feed a puppy. I was shocked when she told me that she starts weightpulling and exercise at 4 months(!) to build muscle and when the pup is fit enough she starts to feed her more to put some fat on. But what is surprising to me is that I don´t know a dog of hers who has bad hip or elbow evaluation and she has several oldies in super condition.

Now I am puzzled... I am not talking about 2-3 dogs but over 30 years of experience. I don´t agree that a pup should be overly protected from exercise (like running around in the yard or having a short walk) and I think that a pup shouldn´t get any forced exercise. But to my great surprise her theory actually made some sence to me. What do you think about this? If it was any other person I whould just call it stupid and good luck that nothing had happened but what are the odds of a person having plain luck for so many years with alot of pups? I am not planning to start weightpulling with my future puppies and I already am exercising and keeping my adult lean (and plan to do so in the future). I was just so very shocked and confused and whould like to know what do you think...

How many puppies that don't go to training homes learn "weightpulling" where they drag their owners around on a leash? By the collar no less? How many of them develop serious skeletal problems as a result?

Do we stop high school boys from joining the wrestling team because their growth plates are not closed?

Mushers start running puppies in harness at 6 months. They keep the milage low by their long-distance trekking standards, but 5 miles is further than my breed people think I should allow my puppy to walk, never mind run while towing part of my wieght.

I think this is an area that is poorly understood. Everything I say is an opinion, and I've heard from folks on multiple sides of the issue.

If I purchased a pup from a breeder that regularly trains the pups to weight pull, I'd listen to her advice. There is plenty of evidence that hip/elbow problems have a strong genetic link and her line may be free of such problems.

There is also the fact that certian kinds of conditioning can actually treat hip displaysia, so an exercise plan with a 30 year history of sucess may be worth participating in even if your dog's family health history is not perfect. I wouldn't start off training for the next IWPA meet at that age, but if the breeder had a timetable of distances and weights at various ages, I'd be interested to see it. I wish I could have found someone with a long history of raising bikejor pups to guide me in my conditioning plan.

I bikejor with my puppy. We've been doing it since she was 3 months old. I have minor physical limitations, and no fenced yard, so this way I can keep up with her and allow her a chance to run and burn energy like every pup needs. Many people have predicted certian doom for the pup, but she is now 9 months and healthy and strong. Last month we got clearance from a sports vet to continue increasing milage as long as we added more core strenthening exercises.

I think every pup will get the exercise they need, if you don't provide a structured activity, they will tear around and bounce and wrestle to burn off the energy. If approached carefully with a proven conditioning plan, I think "forced" exercise is generally safer than jumping/wrestling/eating furniture.

P.S. I wouldn't call what we did at 3 months "forced" exercise. On a couple occasions Maggie wandered off to the side and took a nap in the middle of our run. I sat down with her and soaked up the sunshine for a bit until she felt like getting up. Bikejor was just a way for me to keep up with her. Only in the last month or two have we started adding training requiring her to keep the line tight. (A tight line is for the safety of the team, at her lower puppy speeds it was not a big deal, but now that she can top 10 MPH it is an issue to have her not in positiion.)

 Quote: Denise Skidmore

Do we stop high school boys from joining the wrestling team because their growth plates are not closed?

My brother has painful Osgood-Schlatters disease in both knees(his Doctor said it is the most severe case he's ever seen), that developed as a direct result of Jr High and High School wrestling and football (specifically the running while wearing extra weight).

Osgood-Schlatters is caused when children engage in strenuous physical activities before the growth plates in their knees close.

My brother is 19 now, and sometime in the next two years (when x-rays reveal his growth plates are fully closed) he will require surgery on both knees to remove the tibial fragments, which hopefully will relieve some of the pain.

So yes, we do allow young boys and girls to wrestle and engage in other physical sports before their growth plates are closed. Many of them are left with overuse injuries that will plague them for a long time to come, too.

I'm sorry for your bother, but how common is that?

Would a better structured conditioning plan have prevented it? It was the amount of weight/exercise, not the fact that he participated in the sport that caused the problem?

Did a little reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osgood-Schlatter_disease
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/knee/osgood.htm

Seems this usually clears up when the patient reaches physical maturity. This is not at all similar to the progression of hip displaysia, which is the big goonie used to scare puppy owners into not exercising their pups.

Osgood Schlatters is actually quite common.
It is also usually rather mild, and many people had it as young adults, but never knew because it wasn't all that bothersome.

My brother is a more severe case, mainly because he did not stop aggravating it, and continued on in sports after he first developed it. He neglected to tell anyone that he was experiencing pain until it was excruciating, and by then the damage was extensive.

I doubt physical conditioning would have completely prevented the issue, but if he'd said something when the pain first started, he would have been fine. A couple of months of rest, follow by slow re-entry to sports, and the problem more than likely would not have recurred.
Instead, he continued on well past the point at which the body could heal itself, and he will need surgery when he is older to repair the damage.

No, it's not the same as HD/ED, and it wasn't even really my intent to weigh in either way on how much puppies should be exercised.

I just wanted to make the comment that yes, we do allow young atheletes to engage in all sorts of physical activity before their growth plates closed, and many of them do suffer complications as a result.

The only similarity between my brother and a pup, is that the pup is likely to be every bit as stubborn, and refuse to show pain or stop when they should.
As a handler though, you can approach exercise well-armed with knowledge, and stop your pup before they hurt themselves.

I have always been all for letting a pup excercise as much as s/he wants. This means I walk and the pup moves as s/he is comfortable with and when I start seeing that s/he doesn´t want to move around as much, slows or tries to stop, I´d pick him/her up and carry home. This worked for the pups I have had (a total of 4- a collie mix, a french bulldog that are adult and fine, a german shepherd and a dobermann that I lost at 1 year and 6 months and neither were x-rayed) and I always thought it is ok.

Just after a woman whos horses I rode got a neopolitano that she let walk around as much as he wanted and by this I mean walk around the stable and mind his own business and not even fallow her even though she was instructed by the breeder to keep him on leash with very little excercise first year. At 6 months she was carrying the dog up the stairs because he was too lame to negotiate level ground without trouble, let alone walk up a flight of stairs. I don´t think they operated him though. Then I found Leerburg.com that suggests that pups should get very limited excercise.

A suggestion to let pup pull weights whould have been a bit extreme to me in the first place but now it really shocked me. I believe that a dog should be fit and shouldn´t be overwight. But I plan on getting a pup and am reviewing my principles about raising her and whould like to get shed some light on this topic.

I'm afraid there's not much light to shed. I read everything I could for several months about bikjoring with a pup, and got answers all over the place. I've had a vet tell me to run the pup into the ground and wear her out more often. Most Great Dane breeders believe the pup should have very minimal exercise other than "free running" until one year. Then you get answers everywhere in between.

Since I don't have any way to regularly provide Maggie with free running, I consider bikejor with gradual conditioning to be a second best option. I think a complete lack of exercise is just as bad as too much.

In my humble and inexperienced opinion, weight pulling would exercise the dog's muscles, but not stress his joints as much as say, jumping.

I think what Leerburg says about "too much" puppy exercise is something like encouraging the dog to keep exercising when it is tired, encouraging him to jump up or run/jog on concrete.

IMO, playing with other dogs in a yard on grass, mushing (running Huskies) on snow - mushers let their puppies run loose with the team, not in harness, then put them on the sled when they get tired; working sheepherding dogs (farmers let the puppies begin at 3-4 months with the adult dogs to show them how); playing ball but stopping when the pup loses interest or lays down, and maybe even weight pulling to a certain degree would be different than going for a run on a paved road.

I have heard of high-up agility competitors who start training their puppies very early (like 10 weeks) on obstacles. However, they don't jump the pups, rather have them run through the jump with the pole on the ground, or a very low dog walk. They keep the sessions short (5 minutes).

You could research some sheep farmers (for example) and see how they train their puppies, and find out what kind of injuries the dogs sustain and how they are when they are older, in addition to talking to the dobe breeder. Look into other working disciplines and sports too.

Hopefully this helps.