I’ve looked over the forums and have found a lot of post talking about out problems and what not, but my question seems a bit different. If there is a post discussing it already I apologize.

I’m having difficulty understanding whether or not your dog should out ONLY when you give the out? If I offer another toy or food and he drops the prey item is that a good thing? Should I even be concerned about my dog learning to out only when I tell him to?

Thanks…

Does your boy know the out command already, and perform it reliably? Or are you just trying to teach him the out?

I sometimes use the two toy (or ball) method and sometimes I use food to get the dog to drop the item....

But mostly I do this:

When the dog is first learning the out, (puppies too) I take the toy in both hands on either side of their mouth, and hold the toy between my knees and go still, and do not talk to the dog. When I see the dog getting ready to let go, I give the "aus" or "out" command and when the dog lets go they are instantly given back the toy and high praise....."Good Aus" give the toy.

I find that most dogs learn the "game" quickly.

Cindy has a great video of Rush doing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOue4nJEQmw&feature=channel

I am sure more people will jump in and give their two cents as well.

Hi Carol and thank you for responding to my post. Yes he knows the out command and he does it without any problems. My question really is do I need to be concerned about him simply dropping the prey item as soon as my hand goes in the treat bag? Toro has a very high prey drive but his food drive is through the roof. Bulldogs are known for their insatiable appetites and this quality has shined brightly on my boy.

Example, I was working him in the backyard (drive and focus) one day and my wife was in the house cooking. The smell alone was enough to completely distract him. I mean, it was like I wasn't even there. He just stood there noise in the air. Training him to be a PPD I'm always worried about how much food or even other prey items distract him.

As per instructions in the videos "drive and focus" and "preparing your dog for the helper", I've been trying to keep from using the out to finish the game. I started using other toys which worked, but I was cloudy about whether to trade or just use it to lure him, I chose the second and that would be the end of the game. It just made more sense to me because I thought it important to hold it until I gave the out command. That maybe we had to work our way through these distractions until we were left only with the out. Using another prey item now doesn't work anymore... So, in moving to food, it dawned on me I might have that wrong and I don't want to damage some other aspect I haven't even considered yet.

(sorry so long, I hope that's clear)

Thanks again...

My dog will always choose food over a toy too. I think what may help you is to just use one toy and when he outs give him an immediate re bite. It ends up helping him learn that its playing with you thats the reward. There's a thread on here somewhere that Roni Hoff talks about a rythem of tugging and running that was helpful to me. If you do a search on her posts you'll be able to find it.

 Quote: david snellbaker

My question really is do I need to be concerned about him simply dropping the prey item as soon as my hand goes in the treat bag?

Hey David...

I guess for me, it would depend on what we are training for. I really don't care if my (SAR) dogs drop an item for food, I do not compete with them so it is not an issue.

With the gun dogs, we do teach them to hold (softly of course) until we take the bird.

I know that in the sport world they want the dog to hold the "dumbell" or other item until the dog is given the command to release.

My dogs are all food lovers as well, although I have two that could care less about food when they have their most favorite toy. That is when I use the two toy method or the other method I talked about before.

thanks guys, (steve I'm going to look up that post) I'm probably making more out of it than it really is... I guess the important thing is that he outs. By the way, thank you for the video Carol it was very helpful.

Edited by David Snellbaker (11/09/2008 06:03 PM)
Edit reason: typo's