Need help - Abuse of Ringing Bell to go Out!
#217949 - 11/28/2008 06:44 PM |
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Our 6 mo old Dobe has responded beautifully to marker training with a clicker. I've watched the new Leerburg DVD on Marker training and have completed puppy kindergarden with her in which clicker training was also used.
We wanted to teach her to ring a set of sleigh bells hanging from the front door handle to signal when she needs to go out to do her "chores". Everything has gone smoothly but suddenly it seems that she's ringing the bells just because she wants to go outside, not necessarily because she has to pee or poo ......
My current strategy is to go out when she rings the bells and giver her her command to "go in the grass" and allow plenty of time for her to do so. If she's clearly just wandering around randomly sniffing and frolicking, I take her back in, no playing or positive/negative response. She's taught to wait at the door for a command to enter/exit after me, but when she's initiated the flase "I need to go out" bell ring, she just stands there and doesn't come in. I then close the door (with me already inside) which results in her just standing at the door. A few minutes later, I open the door and repeat the command to enter and she does, if not I repeat the door closure.
I really don't want to extinguish the bell ringing behavior but I need experienced advice on suggestions as to how to reattach the correct end behavior to ringing the bell to go out.
Thanks in advance to any suggestions,
Mich
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Re: Need help - Abuse of Ringing Bell to go Out!
[Re: Mich Young ]
#217980 - 11/29/2008 08:05 AM |
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I'm not a big fan of dogs ringing door bells to go out, but you can get false positives (I need to go out now!) regardless of the signaling method you and your dog use.
I think what you are already doing is what you need to do...go out every single time your dog rings the bell, if it doesn't do anything, back inside, no fun. The other side of this is big rewards and fun when it does do its business.
If your dog is ringing the bell out of boredom (makes sense, right? Nothing is going on that's fun in here...let's go see what's happing in the yard...), then perhaps a little more structured exercise and maybe more brief marker sessions would help some.
As an aside, my cats use a bell to signal wanting to go out. I've never used this with my GSD, but smart dog that she is, she's hit on it herself. And, yes, sometimes she'll go up and ring the bell out of boredom or when she wants interaction if I'm in the general vicinity of the back door. When I open the door and she doesn't really want to go out, I just say, "phoey" and close the door.
My guess is that you can make a lot of improvements here in the false-positive door ringing, but you'll always get some if you have bells on your door. And, for this to work, you can NEVER use the ring to signal going out to play or walk or anything but potty business.
Also, as young as your dog is, I wouldn't be letting her out to do her own business, anyway. I'd be going with her, each and every time. How else can you rewward the behavior you want and ignore or discourage that which you don't? If you regularly let your dog hang out in the yard on her own, that could make the door signaling thing a bit harder to fix.
leih
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Re: Need help - Abuse of Ringing Bell to go Out!
[Re: leih merigian ]
#217987 - 11/29/2008 09:28 AM |
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Thanks for the input Leih. We never have used the bell ringing to signal anything other than going out to do business. But it all makes sense especially since I've been sick with a nastly flu. I definitely haven't been giving her the exersice/play and attention that I normally do. So she's bored and restless, not her normal happy but tired pup.
I do go out with her every time, she's never on her own outside. I'm able to close the door on her when I come in and she doesn't ONLY because I know her behavior is to stand stock still in the position I left her in.....that plus we're on a large ranch, no streets or neighbors and I can easily see her if she were to move off the porch.
I think I need to move back a step and put her back on MY schedule of her going out to potty, and take our household activity to another area of the house where the sleigh bells are not accessible. Then on MY schedule, walk with her close by the door. She'll undoubtably ring the bells, out we'll go and she'll do her business to lavish praise. Then back inside and repeat on MY schedule.
Thank you again for your help, it's great to have someone knowledgeable to bounce this stuff off of! I really appreciate it.
Mich
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Re: Need help - Abuse of Ringing Bell to go Out!
[Re: Mich Young ]
#218014 - 11/29/2008 02:16 PM |
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I think I need to move back a step and put her back on MY schedule of her going out to potty, and take our household activity to another area of the house where the sleigh bells are not accessible. Then on MY schedule, walk with her close by the door. She'll undoubtably ring the bells, out we'll go and she'll do her business to lavish praise. Then back inside and repeat on MY schedule.
You're very welcome and sorry you've been ill. Hope you're on the mend...
Your plan is sound. However, what are your plans for when you travel with your dog? Take sleigh bells with you everywhere so you can put them on the doors, or tent screens?<g> Perhaps you don't plan to travel with your dog or take it anyplace where it will need to let you know it needs to go out (visiting friends or relatives, etc.).
Regardless of the bell thing, putting her back on a schedule that you control isn't a bad idea at all.
leih
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Re: Need help - Abuse of Ringing Bell to go Out!
[Re: leih merigian ]
#218024 - 11/29/2008 05:10 PM |
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I am much better today - thanks!
She is a dream to travel with. We've done plenty of it in the 3 months since she's been ours. I got REALLY ill the night before Thanksgiving after we had travelled 250 miles. We visited with friends that night who have a 90 lb, 2 year old Chocolate Lab that our pup tries to dominate. She was successful on her first attempt that I witnessed and didn't stop because everyone was SO entertained ...."Isn't she cute!" Now I stop the play and distract her when we're at the point where I see her escalating to her doninating moves.
The next morning, I thought it best not to play "typhoid Mary" and infect the entire family at Thanksgiving. My husband stayed and since our friends had already been "exposed" to my illness and happened to be travelling to their ranch (from their full-time residence in the city) which is near ours, I caught a ride back home with them. Traffic was not great but our pup and their Lab made the 4 hr drive stuck together in the back of the crew cab - not a peep out of them.
I guess when we travel, I'm more tuned in to her behvior so I don't need bells. She wanders from me and paces when she needs to go, it's pretty obvious if you're paying attention. At home I'm much more distracted by chores and projects so the bell ringing sounded like a great idea. Never occured to me to take it on the road.....and certainly not in a tent! Our last Dobe carried her own tent and rations in her backpack. We're waiting for our new pup to turn 18 months before a full-blown wilderness trek - she's inherited the tent and backpack.
Thanks again for your reply,
Mich
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Re: Need help - Abuse of Ringing Bell to go Out!
[Re: Mich Young ]
#218025 - 11/29/2008 05:43 PM |
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Great news that you're feeling better...I hate being sick<g>.
We visited with friends that night who have a 90 lb, 2 year old Chocolate Lab that our pup tries to dominate. She was successful on her first attempt that I witnessed and didn't stop because everyone was SO entertained ...."Isn't she cute!" Now I stop the play and distract her when we're at the point where I see her escalating to her doninating moves.
I'm glad you're stopping her before she gets into her dominance mode. One of my favorite dog training sayings is "never do once what you don't want to do twice." You simply can not let them practice negative behaviors, period. Ever. They tend to be self-reinforcing, so they're very difficult to eradicate once they set in. Another of my favorite sayings is that it's always easier to do it right the first time, than to have to fix a mistake or behavior later. Retraining sucks<g>.
It sounds like you've got your dog-notification thing all figured out...I know what you mean about being distracted while busy at home. Also, just a gentle reminder...if I remember, she's only 6 months old...pretty young not to still be supervised when she's free in the house.
I am a maniac about supervision<g>. The one time I was negligent, when my GSD was 6 months old and generally well-behaved, she was just playing around not that far from me when I got a phone call and allowed myself to get distracted. A few minutes later, I heard this ripping noise, went into the adjacent room to investigate, and found she'd already ripped off all the fabric on one end of the couch. I'm sure she had a blast, and am thankful it's the only thing she ever harmed during her puppyhood. Of course, I was totally pissed at myself<g>. Totally my own fault.
Keep getting better...
leih
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Re: Need help - Abuse of Ringing Bell to go Out!
[Re: leih merigian ]
#218053 - 11/29/2008 11:23 PM |
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Gentle reminder duly noted.
Luckily she's a typical velcro DoberGirl. Her self imposed rule is where I go, she goes - no exceptions!
But you're thanks for reminding me that I practice complacency at my own (or my sofa's) peril.
Take care,
Mich
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