After a couple bouts of illness, $600+ spent at the E-Vets and a miserable dog, I finally realized that I was making my dog sick by attempting to feed both kibble and raw in the same diet.

A major bout of colitis, followed by a brief remission, followed by horrid gas, followed by pudding diarrhea that stopped almost immediately after removing kibble from the diet (she was on a quality kibble, BTW.)

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=207548

I know it is working with your older dog, and it works for a great many dogs here on the forum, but every dog is different in what they can tolerate. Mine couldn't. Perhaps your younger dog cannot either.

I was just blessed to get a vet who blamed the kibble, and not the raw.

When I got her, the stool was normal. I switched to Wellness about 3 months ago and her stools are formed, but soft. I know they are not hard enough to express her anal glands. With the worms, she slowly developed the loose stool, then we treated her and she went back to the soft but formed stools. If I feed her a bone in addition to kibble, we go right to loose stool. I don't think she has coccidia. I don't know what EPI is so I can't say about that one. My gut tells me the Wellness is very rich and she is having trouble processing it.

I did read the sample diet Leerburg gives, but it is for normal circumstances. I hope to get there, but I am not sure how to quit a young pup from kibble. Will she get enough nutrition if I fast her 1 day and then start raw? The yogurt sounds like a great idea. I give her digestive enzymes on her food, but I see little difference in stool. Can I go straight to raw and feed chicken breast and thighs to her, maybe some turkey neck, and expect to see her bowels improve? I have 20 pounds of boneless skinless breasts in my freezer that I got for a steal because they are a bit freezer burnt. Should I start with that and add a small amount of bones?

Tammy, you need to read more about feeding raw, I think.

You need to stick with one protein source initially, and it should be a source of bone and meat. Start with something soft like backs or necks, with the fat peeled off...probably you could add a bit of breast meat to that, to increase the meat percentage a little.

Just meat alone can promote loose stools...Keep the breast in the freezer until she is digesting raw well.

Stop feeding turkey necks. They are fatty and may be too rich for your pup...

 Quote: Tammy Griffith

....If I feed her a bone in addition to kibble, we go right to loose stool....

I did read the sample diet Leerburg gives, but it is for normal circumstances. I hope to get there, but I am not sure how to quit a young pup from kibble. Will she get enough nutrition if I fast her 1 day and then start raw?

Can I go straight to raw and feed chicken breast and thighs to her, maybe some turkey neck, and expect to see her bowels improve? I have 20 pounds of boneless skinless breasts in my freezer that I got for a steal because they are a bit freezer burnt. Should I start with that and add a small amount of bones?

You keep saying bone, when in fact you are feeding raw meat and bone, there's a big difference.

You cannot have normal circumstances if you are mixing kibble and raw, do one or the other.

A one day fast is not going to hurt her. Most of my dogs (including the 4-6 lb Chihuahuas) do it once a week. A six month old pup should be fine. She will not drop dead with one day with no food.

She isn't improving the way she is going, try a different feeding program. If you don't see any improvement after a week try something else.

I know that the fast and cold turkey transitions go very well for my dogs, I would expect yours to do well also.

I would also get bone meal or Di Cal to put on the boneless meat since you are already having problems with loose stool. Too little calcium will cause loose stool.

If you can't bring yourself to switch cold turkey start decreasing the kibble at one meal and feed increasing amounts of raw meat and bone at the other meal. Keep the two feedings as far apart as you can. If you throw lunch in you will probably continue to have problems.

If you can't bring yourself to do that switch her to Orijen or Evo instead of the Wellness.

Do SOMETHING different.

I never realized turkey necks were so fatty. Thanks for the advice! I appreciate all your help. I'll read through the posts a few more times and re-read all my raw food books. And I'll get some chicken backs and plain yogurt right away. I really appreciate all your help! It is so great to have folks give me some direction.

Tammy, good luck! If you are making the switch to all raw, then you can feed 3 x per day, if you choose.
Have you figured out how much (weight-wise), that you should be feeding?

I give her the Holistic brand Digest Zymes. I changed her diet and have seen a marked improvement immediately. I cut out her morning meal of kibble and gave her RMB, enzyme and pumpkin. No problems. The for the evening meal I give kibble and enzyme. She is doing great! I will switch her to totally raw in a few days as her system adapts. I couldn't start with chicken backs as was suggested because I can't seem to find them here at all. I can get leg quarters pretty easily and cheap, so I cut them up and froze the legs because I figured the bones were pretty big. I gave her 1 thigh with most of the fat removed. She did great! No barfing, no loose stool. I was scared for a moment because my 9 year old took her out to potty and when I asked what her stool looked like, she said it had something green in it. Either she is Vulcan or she ate something! Turned out she swallowed a piece of green cloth. Whew! This morning, she had 1 and a half chicken thighs with no problems. I am so happy for her!!! Thanks, everyone, for your input. It spurred me to take a step and it is working great!

Don't forget the fish oil and E.

Are you aiming to be on the Leerburg sample diet within a few days?

I have to say that (like others on the thread) I'm not a big fan of kibble and raw. I feel completely differently about THK, or even canned, and in fact I use THK for travel and for an occasional gravy-like variety to my dogs' fresh diet, but .... but anyway, you've made good changes, and the dog is benefiting!

 Quote: jenni williams

... A RMB is more like a soup or knuckle bone, and is recreational in nature as well. Chicken leg quarters are a staple in many dogs' diets.

Old thread, but I want to resurrect it briefly because I received a PM this morning from a board member, new to raw, who was confused by this post. I didn't post immediately because I just found the thread she was talking about.

I think maybe the statement was a typo. A "recreational bone" (not an RMB) would be the term for a soup bone or other bone that is not meant to be consumed.

Here are the definitions:
http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm#RMB