Kind of a silly question, but how do you use the tug exactly for a reward/play during ob? Such as: I call Jake "come". He comes running at me, I mark the action in some fashion, I offer the tug for play, we dance around tugging for 30 sec., I give him the out and put it away, Repeat. Is that right?

In the past I've just played with Jake with something to tug on aside from obedience (so far we've just used food as reward which he does well with). Once he gets a good grip on it I usually tug it around and try to keep him from making off with it, lol. Sometimes I throw it for him to bring back. I'm not sure how to make it clear that the tug is the reward. Will he get it automatically (because hopefully it is fun, lol?).

Just curious if there's something more to it I'm missing before we try this. Seems pretty simple in theory but you never know He's just a pet but he LOVES his ball and seems to like playing tug. He seems to focus much longer when he has to sit waiting for me to throw the ball (vs food). I got my LB order in the mail yesterday with the mini tug (it's so fun getting packages!!! even if it's all for the dogs ).

I don't throw the tug anymore. I let him know I have it on me but out of sight. When I take it out I do it real slow and build up the anticipation. After outing I have him miss and then I put it away and go back to heeling or what you are working on. Thats how I use it to reward in ob but not exactly how I play tug to just build drive.

Carolyn,
What your desctibing could be right but there's a lot that your not saying. If you watch some of the material that Ed has it will help you quite a bit though you'll still have to learn how to read YOUR

 Quote: Michael Reese

Carolyn,
What your desctibing could be right but there's a lot that your not saying. If you watch some of the material that Ed has it will help you quite a bit though you'll still have to learn how to read YOUR

Dog. Lol.

Carolyn,

Ooops! wrong button. Anyway you'll have to learn to read YOUR dog and not look at it as a recipe, because there are no recipes. Having said that though, there are principles to go by. My guess is your dog knows that playing tug is the reward. Most of this is because he likes it, however; your whipping it out and playing with him after he does the right thing seals the deal assuming your timing is good.
It doesn't matter if your using the tug or the ball other than what your dog likes the most, (so he'll work even harder for it) hence higher drive, and/or your dog is still clear with whatever your using.
Done correctly, drive building and o/b go perfectly hand in hand, and don't forget that your grip work (protection) and other fazes of drive building along with tracking are all intertwined like a giant puzzle. I hope that wasn't clear as mud.

Hi Michael & Steve,

Thanks for the replies . I have watched some of Ed's streaming videos (like the restrained recall series that he was sent out in the weekly leerburg emails recently). As you mentioned there's a lot more to it than I was saying, and by watching the videos I was concerned that there were things I couldn't see or didn't know to look for. I think you also mentioned that there are the "principles to go by", since this will be a learning experience. Yes exactly, lol, please elaborate.

Unfortunately while Jake seems to have a decent amount of drive, his nerves are not great. I think working with the tug would be good and fun for him, but I don't ever see us moving beyond that (specifically in bitework- at least I think that's the term) because of this. I have no idea if it's just that he was so sheltered the first 18 months of his life, or if it's a genetic thing, or both.

That said, definitely thanks for the suggestions- and I look forward to hearing more.

Carolyn,
It sounds as if your using high drive and nervousness synonymously (they're not). What does your dog do that you think he's nervous?

Michael,

No- Drive and nervousness are definitely not the same thing. If I gave the impression that I thought so I apologize.

By drive I mean that Jake will happily go after a ball for hours (if I let him) being intensely focused on it, willing to do anything he can to get that ball. He will sit, waiting for me to throw the ball, vibrating with excitement focused only on the ball until I say "ok" and throw, at which point he lets out a squeal of excitement flipping in midair to go after it. He also adores chasing the neighbor's cats. He'll chomp down on the tug once he finds a good grip and he hates to let go, he'd drag me around the yard if I let him. All games I have to stop because he'd go on forever if I let him. Those things I see as drive.

By nerves I mean that he gets startled easily, he's scared of large strange objects (like the empty box his crate came in), all men, some women and children he doesn't know, and noisy items (like the garbage truck backfiring). I once used an organic pest spray on some plants in the back yard, and the smell was either so strange or startling that he refused to go out into the back yard for weeks because he was so scared. When I first adopted him and we went on a walk, he was scared of the palm tree fronds. These things I think are either bad nerves, or bad socialization at a young age, or some combination of both. His lack of steady nerves are why I never see him doing actual bitework; I don't think it would be safe.

If I'm wrong in my understanding of either of these things by all means please correct me! But I do think it is possible to have a dog with medium to strong drive and also bad nerves.

Also, as I mentioned before, what are the basic principles to using a tug as a reward in ob that you were referring to?

Thanks-

Not to try and answer for Michael, but where it started to all come together for me was when Roni Hoff explained it as the dog is tugging to interact with you, not just to tug. Thats not her exact words but if you search through her posts you should find it in the building drive and focus forum.

Carolyn,
I've already mentioned a couple of things. One of them would be not to give the reward unless the behavior you see coming from the dog is desirable. Another one of them is (I just realized that I mentioned these things on another thread) not to adjust to the dog, the dog must either adjust to you or start over from the beggining.
I'm sorry Carolyn I just realized that I mentioned some of these things on another thread earlier today.
When you mentioned " He'll chomp down on the tug once he finds a good grip" are you saying that he's mouthy on the tug?
Another one of these principles in O/B is you don't out the dog while he's got the tug or ball. Wait for him to mouth it or drop it. When he does you tell him to leave it. It doesn't matter if it's a tug or a ball or a sleeve you're creating a behavior, but you must go by the rules of relationship.