I have been using an Ecollar on my GR/Standard Poodle Mix for over a year and it is a wonderful training device. I was against e collars initially until my neighbor showed me how great they are for stubborn dogs like my own. I have felt the same way about prong collars until reading all of the articles and forum postings on them. I see that prong collars can be extremely helpful in training a dog not to pull on leash. My question is, is it necessary to use a prong collar with an e collar? On Ed's site I notice he says he will always use an e collar on his dogs, but don't see anything about always using prong collars. Is there a technique for getting my dog to walk well on leash with using just the e collar? What would be beneficial of using both the e collar and prong?

Thank you!

We walk Hans on a prong collar and an e-collar. For pulling and seeing cats and squirrels the prong gives us all the control we need. However, Hans is dog aggressive, and if he gets into drive before we can react (and he can get there very fast) we need to use the e-collar to control him.

Scenario, on a walk, other dog is behind house in fenced yard. As we are walking by, other dog comes out from behind house and charges the fence, Hans sees this before we do, and he goes into drive and tries to charge back. e-collar time.

Scenario, on a walk, other dog is in his fenced yard. We and Hans see the other dog from a distance before the dog charges the fence. We can control Hans (sometimes, not always) with leash pops as he doesn't go into drive instantaneously.

You don't have to use an ecollar and prong. It is up to you. As the OP says in some situations it could be warrented. I use a flat leather collar and ecollar.

What do you mean by walk well? (heeling or just walking without pulling) What behaviors are you wanted to keep or eliminate?

I have a ecollar and a prong. Both are great training tools when used correctly.

Thank you for your responses. When I say walk well on leash I mean walking without pulling. I am also working on off leash heeling, but need to get them to stop pulling on leash.

Thanks again!

When I walk my pup, he wears every collar he owns (flat leather, ecollar, and prong). I do this so my pup doesn't get wise to which collars have what effect on him. If you make no attempt to confuse the dog as to what collar he's wearing, he will get wise to the ecollar and then his behavior will change when he's not wearing it because he knows you don't have the ability to stimulate him.

I'm curious as to what age (of dogs....) do folks generally start introducing the ecollar into training, and are they doing so after introducing basic obedience without the ecollar? Is the ecollar being used to "tweek" the response to commands? Just curious - thanks for more info.

No dog should be corrected before they understand the command.

In my PERSONAL opinion, no dog can really be expected to fully understand any command until they have performed the exercise correctly between 100-300 times. Again, that is MY personal opinion.

Once the dog has 100-300 repetitions over a period of time (not all in one or two days), then corrections can be introduced for failure to perform THAT SPECIFIC command.

There is no real set age, although I would never recommend putting an e-collar on a dog under 6 months of age, and my one year old is only just now ready for an e-collar in my opinion.

Corrections should only be given to a dog for willful disobedience. A dog that is confused or overstressed should not be corrected for failure to perform. Instead, they should either be shown again what is needed (more teaching/training), or they need a release from the pressure. What constitutes too much pressure varies for each dog- hence the ongoing discussions of temperment, hardness, etc.

Correcting a dog that doesn't understand only puts the dog under more stress and increases the liklihood that he will continue to perform poorly... and you enter into a vicious cycle.

So, to reiterate:

E-collars are for dogs that already understand the command (although many folks will put an e-collar on the dog WITHOUT using it, to desensitize the dog... so just seeing an e-collar on a young dog doesn't necessarily mean that the dog is being corrected!).

The e-collar is used just like any other correction, the only difference being that you can correct the dog even when he is off leash and away from you- the main attraction for most trainers. You don't get that "'ha ha' you can't do anything 'cause I'm way over here" behavior.

There is also the added advantage of not putting any pressure on an older/injured dog's neck, and not requiring physical strength to administer a correction.

 Quote: barbara schuler

I'm curious as to what age (of dogs....) do folks generally start introducing the ecollar into training, and are they doing so after introducing basic obedience without the ecollar? Is the ecollar being used to "tweek" the response to commands? Just curious - thanks for more info.

I personally start my dogs on the collar early, 4-5 months depending on the dog. I use it exactly like I would a leash, for guidance and to 'tap' the pup should I need to redirect him or her from a situation (i.e. our flock of chickens)I think Rush's working level at home is about 13 which I can *barely* feel when I put the collar on my hand to test.

many people mistakenly think the e collar is only used for corrections or punishment, but after years of using it every day on both of my dogs I have found that it accelerates so much of our training. A leash is a big psychological signal for a dog, and I think the sooner you can remove it and still communicate with your dog, the better. That's been my experience.

Thanks Cindy & Alyssa. I assure you I'm not going to strap it on Falcon and start zapping him for not bringing me my slippers and bon bons...

 Quote: cindy easton rhodes

 Quote: barbara schuler

I'm curious as to what age (of dogs....) do folks generally start introducing the ecollar into training, and are they doing so after introducing basic obedience without the ecollar? Is the ecollar being used to "tweek" the response to commands? Just curious - thanks for more info.

I personally start my dogs on the collar early, 4-5 months depending on the dog. I use it exactly like I would a leash, for guidance and to 'tap' the pup should I need to redirect him or her from a situation (i.e. our flock of chickens)I think Rush's working level at home is about 13 which I can *barely* feel when I put the collar on my hand to test.

many people mistakenly think the e collar is only used for corrections or punishment, but after years of using it every day on both of my dogs I have found that it accelerates so much of our training. A leash is a big psychological signal for a dog, and I think the sooner you can remove it and still communicate with your dog, the better. That's been my experience.

Interesting...