Quote: alec s. garrison

and in most case people just give a quick knock and walk in.

For training purpose's and until you have the problem solved can you ask your company to not enter the house that way?

 Quote: alec s. garrison

Jeter will bark at the knock and crowd the doorway. He seems to display some excitement and some who is this and do I need to protect type of behavior so I get a little nervous with new people.

So what behaviour do you want him to do when someone knocks on the door? Do you want him to still bark but not crowd the door way? I just want some specifics here before i go into detail.

 Quote: alec s. garrison

I have tried to explain to the kids that when they bring new people over they need to explain to them how to walk in to my house. No touch, no talk, no eye contact.

That is good advice for all your guests, not just your kids friends. Do your friends follow that rule?

 Quote: alec s. garrison

Dakota will jump on everyone that comes in. Her tail wagging feverishly. I have tried using the e-collar and timing everything but it is almost impossible to always be "right there" every time someone comes in.

Having her tethered to you will solve the "not being right there" issue. And again, asking your guests to knock first or at least give you a heads up that they are stopping by (i know thats hard to always do , but for training purposes I think it will help)that way you can have her thethered to you before they get there.

 Quote: alec s. garrison

When my wife comes in the house they get especially excited. Jeter will even tinkle sometimes.

How does your wife greet the dogs when she comes it?
again, i know it's hard, but for training purposes she might have to start completely ignoring them for a few minutes in order for them to calm themselves down first before petting or greeting them. And I mean COMPLETELY ignoring them. No eye contact, no talking to them, not touching. Again, this won't be forever but until you get them to understang the correct way to greet people coming into the house some things have to change for training purposes. I always found that with dogs the urinate because of excitement the whole ignoring tactic works very well.

Peter's (and Wendy and Jo's) advice is excellent!

To help things along, I would put a little sign on the door that says something to the effect, "We are working on the dogs manners with guests. Thank you for knocking and waiting for us to let you in during this process." or something like that.

Kids, and especially teenagers can be told 100 times to not to do something, and then forget and turn around and do it again. It may help to give a gentle reminder...

 Quote: peter marek

So, someone visits, you or someone takes the dog by the drag like to the door to greet people.

Another suggestion that we employed with our dog (who is 95lbs and VERY intimidating when he's being serious with strangers, and he does, like to be serious with strangers...) - don't even take the dogs to the door. YOU are the only individual with control over who comes to your house to visit - just because the dogs are in the house does not entitle them to be the first to see who comes in the door, nor do they have the privilege of "greeting" anyone until you say so.

When someone comes to the door, give the "place" command (whatever you do to tell them to 'go lie down' on their beds, or in their special spot). If they don't have beds across the room, you can even make up a spot somewhere - next to the coffee table, beside the couch, etc. - and just lead them there then ask them to sit or down. Insist that they stay put in their spot as you go to the door - they will likely test you and keep trying to get up at first, but take as much time as you need to turn around and remind them. I used Cesar's method of using the "shhhht" sound and physically blocking the dog with my body and moving him back... Only once they're firmly on their bed, away from the door, do you actually answer the door.

The same rules that you have for your guests - no eye contact, no talking to or even thinking about the dogs - should apply, you're right in thinking that your guests should not engage the dogs at this point. If the dogs get up once the door is open, calmly turn around and, guiding if you have to, tell them to 'go lie down'. Marker training can be used throughout this process, to reinforce good behavior as they "get it".

Once the greeting is over and the guest is inside, we usually wait until everyone is settled somewhere before releasing the dog (who is usually waiting calmly but expectantly to be allowed to get up and sniff). We also give many of our less frequent guests dog treats to give Oscar - he comes to sniff them, they ask for a sit, then treat him. Food means the world to our dog, so once he sees that we approve a person (by letting them in the house independent of whatever Oscar thinks) AND they give him cookies, he seems to relax quickly. Normally, he only needs that quick sniff and a lap around the room before he goes back to his bed and snores while we chat.

Our dog was rushing/crowding the door AND had a tendency to bark threateningly and lunge up at people he wasn't familiar with, so it was really important for us to both change his mindset about who was in control of "greetings" AND keep him physically at a distance - especially with big dogs, it's just easier to set boundaries than it is to take chances with them knocking someone down or frightening them. This rule applies to a lot of what we do with Oscar.

*Just wanted to add, the issue with your wife is a little different - she's not a stranger - and the advice about completely ignoring the dogs until they chill out is a good one. Also like the sign on the door idea - all excellent suggestions!

~Natalya

These are some great ideas. From a practicality stand point I like the idea of the sign on the door. Maybe I even lock the door so visitors HAVE to wait. This gives me the chance to put the dogs in a sit/stay or place. They both know those commands. I can put them both in a sit stay for a long time. I know that once I open the door they will break the command so I will need to be vigilant with this. I do tell my friends when they come to my house not to look, touch or talk to the dogs until I tell them its OK. The problem is that if you say to a new visitor "please don't look talk to or touch my dogs, they immediately get nervous (normal non dog owner response)and the dogs can sense that. I suppose also I can always crate the dogs when people come. They tend to show all the excitement while in the crate but in a few minutes they calm down and then I can let them out to say hello. Believe me training these dogs is much simpler than training the humans that live with me. That is my biggest challenge. Is there a web site or discussion board for that? LOL

Good suggestions here! Also, I'd enlist someone (a kid?) to be the door-knocker while the dogs practice the behavior you DO want. (As others have pointed out, it's so much more effective to train what you DO want than correct for what you do not.)

Oh, sorry, I missed page 1. lol

Yes, you definitely want to have the magic of marker training on your side! Talk about "the Force" .....

Wendy, I want Jeter to remain somewhat intimidating when people come to the house but once I or someone in the family lets someone in or welcomes them in he should go to relaxed behavior. I would like him to react according to how he see's us react. Is that asking too much or can I do this with the right training?

Also most people do not follow the no talk, no touch and no eye contact rule. I think they feel overwhelmed when they walk in and its hard to ignore 2- 75 lb dogs that are all over you when you walk in. I understand that. Also most non dog owners just don't get it. And as I said in my last post if you tell someone no talk etc... that will make them scared before they even walk in.

 Quote: alec s. garrison

Maybe I even lock the door so visitors HAVE to wait.

That is an great idea!

 Quote: alec s. garrison

This gives me the chance to put the dogs in a sit/stay or place. They both know those commands. I can put them both in a sit stay for a long time. I know that once I open the door they will break the command so I will need to be vigilant with this.

That is not such a good idea (lol)
Alec, if you aren't 100% on the sit stay i wouldn't use it for this situation. It would be like trying to solve 2 problems at the same time and that would be hard for the dogs. Work on one issue for now (the greeting guests) and work on their stay later on. To me if you work on the stay that isn't going to solve the problem because once you release them they are more than likely still going to greet the guests in the same fashion. That is just my opinion but to me that is more work than just tethering a dog to you so you can correct them for unwanted greeting behaviour.
also, i would work with one dog at a time for this. Can you put one in the crate and then tether one dog to you? I know if it's a surprise visitor it might take a bit of doing, but I, personally wouldn't even answer the door until i had one dog tethered to you and one in the crate. I think it would be too much for you to have both dogs tethered to you at the same time and trying to correct them both at the same time, and would probably be stressful for everyone invovled. Again, thats my opinion, but i've never had to deal with 2 over exuberant greeter dogs at one time, so im only imaging it would be difficult. Other members with 2 or more dogs might chime in with something better.

 Quote: alec s. garrison

I do tell my friends when they come to my house not to look, touch or talk to the dogs until I tell them its OK. The problem is that if you say to a new visitor "please don't look talk to or touch my dogs, they immediately get nervous (normal non dog owner response)and the dogs can sense that
I suppose also I can always crate the dogs when people come. They tend to show all the excitement while in the crate but in a few minutes they calm down and then I can let them out to say hello.

That is another good idea. But when you bring the dogs out i would also do it one at a time and have the dog tethered to you while they are greeting the guest. You can alwasy tell the people to just not make too much of a fuss over the dogs instead of going through the whole eye contact, no touching thing. But might i say if you feel the people arent' going to follow the rules i would just keep the dogs away from them on their visit. It only takes one instance to put you 10 steps back in training.

 Quote: alec s. garrison

Believe me training these dogs is much simpler than training the humans that live with me. That is my biggest challenge. Is there a web site or discussion board for that? LOL

We all hear you on that one!!!! But i always tell people, my house, my dog, my rules. And if they don't follow them, THEY get reprimanded, not my dog....lol

 Quote: alec s. garrison

Wendy, I want Jeter to remain somewhat intimidating when people come to the house but once I or someone in the family lets someone in or welcomes them in he should go to relaxed behavior. I would like him to react according to how he see's us react. Is that asking too much or can I do this with the right training?

YES totally doable.
I allow Tucker to bark when someone knocks at the door. Thats what I want him to do. But he stops when i say, then sits until I release him.
It's all about steps. And marker training is a great way to get this accomplished. Ummm...has anyone linked to that yet?
the marker training article?

"Completely ignore the dogs; it's part of their training for greeting non-pack members."

That's what I told people. Sometimes I had to repeat "Completely ignore the dogs" with a little more emphasis.

I too did what Wendy says: One dog at a time.

I gotta tell you. I have to make time at night for this. You guys are great and I can do this all day but as some of you who helped me with the eating issue already know, I switched to Wellness Core kibble and that stuff is expensive. This wouldn't be a good time to get fired for doing this all day instead of my job so I better get back to work!!