I've learned that associating corrections or praise in relation to issuing a command must occur quite quickly. No more than a few seconds should pass, right?

Does that then mean that the effectiveness of the praise is only valid in the dog's mind for a few seconds too?

In other words, one issues a command. Dog performs the task. If praise is given for, let's say a full minute, does the dog associate the entire minute as a reward for the task? Or after a few seconds does he assume that the praise is being issued becuase he's just so cool?

Does one risk "spoiling" the dog with an unduly long duration of praise...even if it follows as a valid reward for behavior? My line of thought is directed towards those who say they want to the dog to work for everything.

Secondly, is there any time where you just like to chill with your dog and pet him for no apparent reason (in his mind at least)? I'm sure that depends on the use/temperment of the dog, but I'd like to hear from a breadth of people and dog uses.

Thanks.

It is definately possible to over-praise. I think Ed calls it "praising to the level of distraction". This would apply to your comment about the dog thinking he is being praised for being "cool" so to speak. When you over-praise, the dog is distracted and forgets what he was being praised for in the first place.

Praise/reward as very close to the moment of the desired behaviour and only praise/reward for the minimum you can get away with bearing in mind you will probably need more reward/praise when you are training a new behaviour. If you stop and break the chain of action with a lot of praise the dog will lose concentration and quit working as there is nothing left to work for.
As for just hanging out I do alot of that with my huskies. Cleaning and doing dogyard chores are a good time to play, goof around a bit, sit on doghouses and scratch ears. Because I have a number of dogs I elect "dog of the day" for extra
attention and a run down to the river. A little extra attention keeps attitudes up and buys you lots of favours when you have to get down to work.
When they are in harness though we keep it serious and no playing or petting just for the heck of it. I save praise in harness for when they have done something I like/want and only pat to praise a single dog in the team when they
have done something noteworthy apart from the rest of the team. As a final remark I use teaching tricks(shake hands, sit pretty etc) as a low stress way to still be teaching something but keep it fun - I have used this if I get a spooky or shy new dog as it warms them up to you fast (the cheese reward helps) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Originally posted by Kurze Haare:
I've learned that associating corrections or praise in relation to issuing a command must occur quite quickly. No more than a few seconds should pass, right?

Animals definitely learn faster if the consequences follow directly after the response; the shorter the interval, the better. However, learning can still occur even when there is a delay between response and its consequence. There is research to support that if a delay of reward must occur, increasing the VALUE of the reward helped to offset the decrement in performance.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Kurze Haare:
Does that then mean that the effectiveness of the praise is only valid in the dog's mind for a few seconds too?

I've never seen any research that specifically addressed verbal praise over an extended period of time, but there is plenty of research to indicate that the size of the reward has a significant impact on learning. The term "jackpot" is frequently used to mean an extra large, special reward to mark a particularly good effort - perhaps it is extended ball play, perhaps a big fistful of food instead of just one piece, etc. While I doubt the dog is thinking the whole time "wow, I sure was perfect on that retrieve", there is plenty of evidence that the EMOTIONAL impact of the extra-special reward stays with the animal and motivates it in subsequent trials. I am talking here about discrete events, such as a retrieve or a period of heeling which you have released the dog from in order to get its reward. For long duration behaviors such as tracking, you can verbally praise and reinforce the dog effectively while he continues to track, but you certainly can also go overboard and interfere with his ability to continue to perform the task.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Kurze Haare:
Does one risk "spoiling" the dog with an unduly long duration of praise...even if it follows as a valid reward for behavior?

No, if 'jackpots' are only used judiciously, when performance warrants it. However, if your NORMAL reward were, say, hunks of prime rib, and then after he had learned the exercise, you decreased them to a normal reward of a dry piece of kibble, the reduction in the value of the reward will have a deletorious effect on his behavior. So if you typically become extremely excited and jump around and praise for a long duration, and then decide that he's learned it, no need to get so excited and you start just quietly saying "good boy", you can expect that he will lose some motivation.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Kurze Haare:
Secondly, is there any time where you just like to chill with your dog and pet him for no apparent reason (in his mind at least.

Yup, I'm guilty of that one, for sure. I'm not petting for HIM, I'm petting cuz I get enjoyment out of it. Thus petting is not a good reward for me to use a lot in training, cuz it's lost a lot of its value to my dogs. I over pet, so it's not neccessarily special to them. It becomes very special to them if there is conflict between us and they want to reestablish the social bonds between us, but as a reward when we are using positive reinforcement and our social status is secure, it doesn't have enough value to be a great motivator.

Sch3FH2,

That was very well thought out and equally well-stated.

Aw, shucks... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Gotta credit Flaherty - Animal Learning and Cognition. Great stuff.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Great stuff as always. Thanks a ton.

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A little extra attention... buys you lots of favours...

Ha! Sounds l;ike you have "good fellas" pulling your sleds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This is an interesting topic.

For me, the duration of praise is a key element in everything that I train. When tracking for SAR, a quick "Good Boy" when he picks up the track is sufficient, as I don't want my praise to be a distraction, but do want to encourage him and let him know he's doing well. When he makes the find, we shoot for a solid two minutes of nothing but play and praise. If he does extremely well, we might even extend it a bit longer, for that "jackpot" effect. For basic obedience, again it's the quick "Good Boy" to let him know he's done right, if he already knows the command. During the learning phase, I gush quite a bit of praise, then gradually tone it down and make him work harder for it. Praise means a lot to my dog, as he shows a lot of pack drive behaviors.

Like so many things in dog training, it really depends a lot on the individual dog. For some, praise can be a huge distraction, while for others, it appears to be meaningless.

I'm with L. on this one. A quick, upbeat good dog for a correct response, and on the ground with a play bow(My guys are little remember)for a "serious" play session. I pet them often during the day but "serious" play is reserved for special occasions. I create special occasions every day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />