I'm curious about the process involved in getting a dog a ZW## hip rating.

Who assigns these ratings? and How? Where?

I'm assuming they are based on Xrays.?.?

I'm guessing the dog probly has to be 2 years of age.?.?

I believe I read somewhere that there is a formula or something about picking a sire and dam to breed based on these ratings...should they add up to a certain number they should not be bred..etc...due to higher risk of HD.

Anybody have the scoop on this? The scores for average and above average etc..ratings.

Also I've notice that the DDR dogs have a different system which scores the hips ie: 0/0 or 0/1 etc...

...any details on the different methods... advantages/disadvantages and accuracy of said ratings would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

0/0, 0/1 is Czech, or Slovak, not DDR.

A ZW is a very complicated compilation of a bunch of different scoring factors rolled into one. It can also be subjective. A ZW of 100 means, for example, that the dog produces the average number of dogs w/dysplasia for the breed. A lower than 100 ZW is better, and a higher number means that dog produces (or is likely to produce) more than an average number of dysplastic dogs.

It's not like a number you can just go and apply for like a rating.

You really have to know what you are looking at to understand and use a ZW to make a breeding decision. For example, Capri's sire had a ZW of 68, extremely, extremely low, at almost 10 years old after who knows how many breedings. I know it was over 30 at least, b/c it was after he redid his Koer, which is mandatory after 30 breedings, I believe. His littermate has a ZW of 72- very close. These are very valid ZW scores, based on plenty of data due to the dogs' ages and vast numbers of progeny. A young dog's ZW of 70 wouldn't mean nearly as much b/c not only are too many other dogs possibly affecting his/her score, but that dog hasn't produced enough dogs to truly give enough of a sample for evaluation.

If you start researching the formula for ZWs, you will be very busy. ;-)

Exactly. It is a number that is typically averaged from mom and dad when they are pups (all pups in the litter are born with the same numbers), and then as they are bred, it can change depending on how the pups come out. Also, pups that mom or dad have after your pup is born can change your number as well as pups born to siblings and grandparents. The more animals born the more accurate the numbers are when it comes to predicting the outcome. The farther away the infected relative, the less it impacts your dogs number.

It is a very fluid and dynamic system that works off of averages and data available.

In ADRK Rotts it is called Dogbase and dogs are given numbers for HD, ED, bone strength, head size, cheek bones, and jaw position.

And how does the Czech, Slovak method differ...maybe not differ since it seems more like an individual rating rather than an average, but how do they come up with that. X-rays? Is it similar to Pen hip?

Jessica, I would be interested in finding out how they determine bone strength ratings for the ADRK Rotts.


Side question about OFA...do they do prelims on elbows or do you wait til they are 24 months old for elbows?

My pup is of age for prelims and am planning on doing it soon...considering maybe doing some swimming exercize for a few weeks before hand to tighten up his ligaments etc...maybe get a kayak and hit the lake or a pond or something.

 Quote: Ray Fajardo

Jessica, I would be interested in finding out how they determine bone strength ratings for the ADRK Rotts.

They are not talking the literal breaking strength, but the heaviness of the bone. So the dog would be light boned or heavy boned. In the Rotts, as there are so many things that are numbered, for things like HD and ED undershot jaw you want a low number and for cheeks, head size and bone strength you want a higher number. For these, it is quite subjective...

It can be helpful though to know that a male has a high head, cheek and bone strength number if your bitch is low in that area...

And yes, they can prelim the elbows. Swimming is a great way to tighten things up...

Yeah, I didn't think that you meant breaking strength...I didn't know how indepth it would be, ie: if they did xrays or ultrasound to measure bone density is what I was refering to.

Do many of the people here on the forum xray spines?...I know some do... while I was at it I was planning on Xraying his hips, elbows and spine, since we were going to be there. But I've been thinking that that may be a lot of radiation over his entire body...any thoughts???

I wouldn't at this point unless there is something going on that calls for it.

The only thing it would be good for is to make comparisons later if something does crop up.

I don't even do prelims unless I see something that worries me. I wait until 24 months and if I were to X-ray the spine, I'd do it then.

All personal opinion.

I think I'm gonna do the swimming for a couple or few weeks and get him in really good shape then have his hips and possibly his elbows X-rayed. I've been kinda anxious and cautious about it since I got him at 8wks.

I've recently learned that for the SV the GSD only needs to be 12 months of age to get his hips/elbows certified. And it can be done through I think it was the WDA and the USA organizations which work in conjunction with the SV.

Another question I have is...when should the GSD begin training for or take the AD. It seems like possibly alot of bone jaring exercize.

Is there a rule of thumb as to what is a good age to begin?