I started using two balls for retrieving with my 6 mo old GSP because with one ball he would go get it, but then mess around and take his sweet time coming back to me.

The problem now is that on the way back to me with a ball in his mouth, he'll drop it about 20 feet away (long before I was to say "aus") and start anticipating the next ball. If I refuse to throw it and tell him to bring the one on the ground, he'll pick it up for maybe a second but then drop it again without bringing it closer. Could I have suggestions on how to make him not "aus" the ball until he's closer to me AND gets the command?

the reason he is doing this is because he dosen't want to loose his ball and he thinks that if he drops it out there he will get to play with it later

what you should do is build drive with a ball on a string and then when he is at his peak level let him get it and then play with him while he has it in is mouth maybe do some obedience with him tell him to do a few sits and downs or calmly pet him all with the ball still in his mouth but the second he drops it grab it by the string and start over

after a while you can start to throw it and see if he trusts you enough to bring it back to you yet then when he does the you start the ous training but very rarely like once every other day and when he does ous it then kick the ball and let him go right back into drive

as he gets older you can start doing it more frequently.

also you might want to get the drive focus and grip video w/ bernahrd flinks if you don't have it already

good luck
-Michael Menger <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if the dog drops it far out because he doesn't want to give it up.

It is more likely that he is really looking forward to the throw of the other ball and he doesn't realize that we want him to bring in the other one all the way. Kinda anticipating and trying to cheat to get a head start.

Don't throw the ball the second time unless he comes all the way in. . .with the ball.

If he just isn't getting it have him come sit to get the ball thrown again. . .then try again.

Also throwing the balls along a line with you in the middle can help. As the dog is coming back you throw the ball behind you, not out again in front.

The dog runs in a line after each ball with you in the middle. Every once in a while you can throw the ball AS he is coming back. . .this starts working in the direction of a fast recall.

Lisa

We call this exercise "Centerline drills". Just as Van Camp explained. Throw the tug, or ball out in front, as the dog returns, give him the "aus" command. As soon as he drops the ball, throw the 2nd ball in the opposite direction. But the 2nd ball must be thrown as sson as he drops the 1st ball.

As the dog retreives the 2nd ball and begins to return to you but drops the ball w/out command, do not move to pick up the ball, the dog is now training you to go get his ball. Coax the dog to pick up his own ball and return to you. As he returns give the "aus" then throw the first ball back in the original direction (Front).

Remember to try and stay in the center of the yard and have the dog work out to the right and left line(Front/Back)"Centerline". Second, the dog only gets the 2nd ball thrown if he returns to you and drops the ball on your command.

If the dog does not go back to pick up the ball on his own then the exercise is over, move on to some other training ex. or basic obedience. Come back in an hour or two and try again. He will soon catch on that if he wants to get the other ball, he has to hold the current ball and return to you until you give "aus".

Thanks a bunch, guys. These pointers will help.

Lisa - if you are just raising a pet there is nothing wrong with "2-ball" it can be a fun game and the information given above is sound advice. But if your goal is to train your dog in Schutzhund - you should not be be playing "2-ball" with the dog. This game works against GRIP training. It promotes a mouthy grip and is counter productive to good training.

All my dogs bring back the ball and give it to me or drop it on command. They are very reliable at bringing the ball back and are just as good as most Schutzhund dogs at retriving. Hear is what I did: 1st: Get a ball on a string and put a leash on your dog so that he is very close to you. Then start playing with it, not throwing it, bouncing it around you (never away from you) hideing it from time to time, puting it between your legs, etc. Then let the dog bite into it and start a game of tug. You should win some time and let the dog win some time. When you do let him win, don't let him run off with the ball, make him stay close to you so that he will learn that he will play when near you and can't play away from you. Play this game for 2 months, 3 times a day. 2nd: Have a friend hold your dog on the leash while you walk 20 yards away and play the game by yourself. Walk closer and closer until you are 10 yards away. Then your friend should let the dog go, and as the dog runs to you say the bring command and back up several steps. When the dog gets to you, play with the ball a little and then start a game of tug, after 3 tugs let him have the ball, then take his leash and run a few rounds with him, then stop and pet his back and then head. After the dog has begain to looses his pride in his prise, take a treat and offer it to him and give the out command, after the dog has made the trade, start playing with the ball again, and praticeing the out command. If you train like this for a while you will have wonderful results, believe me. 3rd: Put the dog in a sit-stay and put the ball 10 yards away then walk a few yards pass the ball, then give your dog the bring command and the dog should come running to the ball and bring it up to you and then give the out command and your dog should give you the ball, play this sevral times. After a whilw throw the ball and give the dog the bring command and he will go get it and bring it to you. This is really the best way I have found to train the bring and out command. It takes months to teach, but the results are the best you can ever get and are reliable. I have Akitas, and it is a rare triat for an Akita to play fecth, but all of mine bring back the ball and listen when I give the out command just as good as the dogs in Schutzhund competictions. I should mention the person that taught me this had 2 Schlll dogs. This really works and I hope you will give it a try. Good luck, bye.

3rd: Put the dog in a sit-stay and put the ball 10 yards away then walk a few yards pass the ball, then give your dog the bring command and the dog should come running to the ball and bring it up This point worked great for my dog. He already did the sit-stay and the recall, and found it very interesting to pick a ball when rushing to come. Just a new funny game. Sometimes he can't pick it up from the first try because of the speed.

The training that Kathy explains for the retrieve is good advice. It is very close to my video on training the motivational retrieve (http://leerburg.com/106.htm). There are some things that Schutzhund competitors need to do differently.

Be very very careful about how often you take the prey item or dumbbell (DB) away from the dog when he is sitting in front of you. Do it too much in the front position and the dog will start to chew (in anticipation of the OUT) - its a better idea for the handler to either pivot so the dog is sitting in the heel position by your side and do the OUT there - or from the front position start to fight and play again.

There is a protocol for substituting the DB for the tug. This is started close to the handler with the dog on leash.

Also don't forget that you should be using rubber balls and not tennis balls. The glue in tennis balls has a chemical reaction to enamel on your dogs teeth.