Quote: randy allen

Ever seen C.M. choke out a dog Mikaela?...........I have.

I have, too. Emma, for one.

One of the things that fall under "the level of correction needed -- no more and no less."

That would be a wise philosophy, and one that must have escaped the O.P. when she watched a couple of CM episodes and read a couple of pages on LB.

Myself, I wonder if the op has ever even owned a dog.

 Quote: Mikaela Ellinger

Leerburg is just out to make money, and has no real interest in a dogs safety, or is too ignorant to see what he's doing.

Extremely ignorant!!! Out to make money and offering 16,000 free pages of primo information; will he ever learn?

Perhaps an apology is in order Mikaela.....what do you say to that?

And as an aside what's wrong with making money? I go to work everyday just for that purpose, slave to the almighty dollar that I am.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

...she watched a couple of CM episodes and read a couple of pages on LB.

It would seem that sometimes a little bit of information can be more dangerous than none all.

 Quote: Randy Allen

Myself, I wonder if the op has ever even owned a dog.

I was kind of wondering that too. Either she doesn't have a dog or hasn't had experience with too many different temperaments if she's objecting to things like prong collars and basic safety around managing new dogs.

Mikaela,

I love my dog. Dearly.

I've used a prong collar and also (GASP) an E collar. My relationship with my poor abused dog continues to grow and florish each and every day. He is such a goof-ball, he hasn't figured out that all those tasty treats given as a direct result of marker training are a GOOD thing...

My dog is now eating a wholesome, home-grown diet of raw meat and bones as a direct consequence of my "reading a few pages" on this site. No one has made a dime off that decision... oh, I take that back, I do purchase the fish oil from Leerurg... damn capitalists... WHY don't they give that away for free???? I purchase numerous Leerburg products and can only hope that the free market continues to allow Leerburg to rake it in as long as possible...

I love Ceasar Millan. He sells tons of videos, dog collars and leashes as well. Maybe we should all boycot him as well.

I bet she has an "Old Red English" Bulldog like Mallory.

That will be Mikaela's one and only post here, folks.

Hopefully Ed will just delete it, there's no need to read moronic ranting from someone that doesn't know crap.

Will Rambeau
Moderator

 Quote:

Your post is pure foolishness. It is devoid of any useful information or suggestion.

I echo Mike's sentiments. There is more free info on this site than anywhere you go, so the poster's comments about Leerburg being in this just for the money is a flat out lie.
Further more, insulting as both Ed and Cindy are incredibly generous with all the TONS OF FREE INFO!

I suggest you either continue to do your homework and continue reading. I also challenge you to find another place that is as comprehensive as this site is.

Thank you Will!

And Cesar Milan isn't harsh????

The public love him because they don't know any better, but dog trainers are appalled with his methods. He uses confrontational approaches so he can have an excuse to use his machismo.

The worst example I saw was the episode with the Korean Jindo. He used an alpha roll after a snug cloth muzzle had been put on the agitated dog. Before the muzzle was put on, the dog had been panting rapidly and showing clear signs of fear aggression and stress. The muzzle held the dog's mouth closed so it could no longer pant. Cesar fought the struggling dog to the ground and held the dog there by resting his body across the dog's. The dog struggled for a while and then went limp. Cesar stood and declared the dog had relaxed into submission. The dog remained limp and unmoving for longer than could be expected for showing submission. When the dog stirred and stood, he staggered and almost fell several times. It had Cesar return on a future day, and the dog was very subdued, dull, and listless as well as drooled. He proudly proclaimed it a success. The owner later had the dog put down and sued Cesar.

Even if he hadn't halfsuffocated the dog, alpha rolls have no basis in pack behavior, or place in dog training; in my opinion.

I've known of other dogs which died at Cesar's facility. At least one on the treadmill and one by drowning; and he's had other law suites filed against him by former clients.

There are at least two things you seem inexperienced in knowledge about.

The first is in reading a dog's body language to distinguish between stress and intimidation on the one hand, and happy eagerness to work on the other. If I am wrong about your knowledge, re-watch videos of dogs trained by Cesar and by Leerburg methods. Body language displayed by dogs Cesar works with indicate stress and intimidation. The dogs move stiffly and hesitantly. The tail wags are of an appeasing nature. Now what do you see on the Leerburg videos?

The second is the harshness of prong collars. Prong collars are a training tool. They are good in the hands of a knowledgable, fair trainer. They can be cruel in the hands of a cruel or angry person. They are inherently gentler than choke chains; in my opinion. They are extremely gentler than head collars; in both my opinion and any vet who has had to treat whiplash or who has had to excise necroptic tissue from the top of a dog's muzzle who wore head collars.

In my opinion there is no one method, or one tool, that is right for every dog, handler, or situation.