I need some help getting my 15 mo. old GSD to sitz and platz a little quicker. he responds quickly, it's just the motions themselves are slow sometimes. the sit, especially.

i've heard that teasing them with the ball to get wound up can help get faster reactions, but he actually sits slower when i use the ball, because he leans forward, quivering in anticipation. same thing with the platz - sometimes he eases down like he's afraid he's gonna miss something, other times he drops like all 4 legs got chopped off.

i want him to plant his butt 'now' when i say sitz - not rock back or ease into it.

obviously i reinforced something wrong somewhere along the way. i'm hoping someone here can help me fix it.

thanks in advance for any suggestions.

chris bettin

HE has to rock back due the skeleton that is in his body and the mechanics of said skeleton .Speaking of the sit that is .GOOD LUCK

hmmm...

but is the skeleton that's in his body and the mechanics of said skeleton powered by a rubber band that has to be wound up by taking a step backwards first?

speaking of the sit, that is.

especially when he's not right beside me.

Some high prey dogs get locked in prey if they can see the ball and they react much slower and stiffer rather than faster. Try playing and teasing him and then making the ball disappear, possibly even pausing a moment as if the game is over in order to break the "spell" and then give him a cue for either sit or down. If it's slow but he does do it, just release him iwth "ok" or whatever you normally say to release him (NOT your conditioned reinforcer which means you did it right and can have the ball). Try it several times and see if any of his behaviors are quicker than his average and if so, reward that one. To change his behavior, you have to first have a picture in your head of what his average, slow performance is and you want to reward anything that is better than that. You're probably not going to see blazing reactions so don't hold out your reward waiting on that. Just reward anything better than the norm. And DON'T be afraid to withhold the reward when it's not good enough. So many people think they must give him the ball cuz he did sit albeit slowly. Nope. Withholding the reward and building his frustration is what is going to cause him to look for a different behavior to please you with - hopefully a FASTER one.

Pay attention to how your dog sits also; there are two ways - he can keep his front feet in place and move his rear up (this is the faster, more desirable way) or he can plant his rear feet, sink down and walk his front feet back (rocking back). This is undesirable cuz it's slower usually and also results ina correctly positioned heeling dog ending up behind his handler at the halt. If your's walk backwards into the sit, try retraining it. You get the walk back sit most often from people jerking backwards on the collar when they want a sit, which causes the dog to shift his weight back and so his rear stays in place. Instead, try using food positioned just above the end of his nose, so he's reaching upwards and forwards, which keeps his front feet in place and his rear has to walk up.

thanks, lee.

what you describe as the 'high prey' dog locking up is exactly what he does with the ball. i'll try to work with him, or focus more on making him work as you recommended.

the second part is on, too - i'm trying to get more of the desirable one (front feet planted. walks the back up.) he does pretty good when he's right next to me - he seems to get lazier when he's away, and that's when i see the walk back, even taking a full step or two back sometimes.

i assume i need to start over with mass repetition of the right way next to me and work my way out...

Just putting the prey object out of sight can sometimes make a world of difference. It gets rid of that glazed over look where brain is not engaged. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Differential reinforcement (the fancy term for selectively reinforcing only faster and faster performance) is a very powerful tool, but it requires the handler to be very strict in his adherence to his criteria. You can't reward a sloppy, slow sit tomorrow and then not reinforce it the next day and expect the dog to change his behavior. You have to be relentless in refusing to reinforce slow performance. That doesn't mean punish it or berate the dog or say anything negative to the dog. Just smile and release...too bad, soo sad, try again.

Lee could you explain a little more? Ok the prey item that is focused on is put away before the command so they can listen? I was told to correct just after the command so they try to beat the correction. It probably works but I'd like to try what you are explaining. Sounds more like fun.

What you're describing is also one option for speeding up the response. Personally, I save that one for my last resort. If I can get speed thru positive means, so much the better. So I'll play with the dog (mine like ball on a string, but use whatever) and get him hyped up, then spin and hide the ball out of sight and simultaneously say "sitz". If he offers the sit quickly (ALL the way down into a sit, watch out you don't reward just a crouch), then I say "yes" and throw the ball. As he's running back with the first ball at full speed, I'll call out Aus and another command (sitz, platz, steh or hier are the four I'll interchange). If he executes quickly, I throw the second ball. If he is slow, I leave him in that position while I quickly pick up the first dropped ball (so he can't self-reward), then release him with just an 'ok' and tease him up again - no ball. He only earns the ball throw when the execution is quick.

If your dog is good about bringing the balls all the way back to you, you can play the lazy man's game, which is usually how I'll end a session. I'll kneel or sit in the grass and call out a coommand. A quick response earns a short toss, he instantly returns to me and outs it and waits to see what the next one will be. With two balls and very short tosses, you can pop out 10-15 commands in a minute and mine think it's a blast.

The same concept of selectively rewarding only the quicker responses should be applied to more formal work as well, not just during games (tho that's a great place to start it). When you do a formal sit out of motion, for instance, if the dog doesn't execute quickly, you shouldn't reward him, no matter how guilty you feel about not doing it.

Some dogs don't have any problem with their toy/ball being visible; they don't go into vapor lock. But it can be a real stumbling block for some prey monsters, and simply removing it from sight will improve their ability to respond.

Thanks Lee. I gave it a try and it is working till she gets cranked up. She came back one time and bit me 5 times. What's that all about? She would not sit and she would take a shot, let go, stay within 4 feet and lunge again, after a few good bites I threw the item just to get her off me. No I haven't got all the Leerburg tapes yet and should probably just work on OB for now untill I can control the situation.Any ideas while I'm waiting for the tapes to arrive? Maybe I can give better questions then.