I see what you mean. I read it as a discussion of future vax, but I understand your point. Sorry!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Great posts!

But:

 Quote: Joy van Veen

Rewarding for looking at another dog non-aggressively is fine .....

I just want to pop in here and say that something like marking/rewarding for looking at another dog non-aggressively is probably beyond the timing capabilities of most handlers....

Yes, this is probably true. If the reinforcement can't be timed right and the dog is inadvertently rewarded for a hard stare as opposed to a casual glance, it could be detrimental. It does take a degree of discernment to be successful.

Just an update here.

The back yard is now fenced (Thank GOD!) and we have spent the winter re-enforcing groundwork, my being the alpha, etc. We've worked on re-enforcing basic obediance in the house and yard (and his down-stay has improved a lot, I must say; a little ashamed to admit it, but I had let some things slide when I started homeschooling, then had another baby, then put the house up for sale, then moved . . .). In the house and yard, his behavior is very good. I've done my best to walk at times when there are few other dogs out and to choose a route that does not take us by too many other dogs in their own yards. It's hard, in this area.

He's back to ignoring most dogs behind fences, except for some that go insane when we walk by. He also is improving on ignoring on-leash dogs, though that is going slower. He will still react agressively if they are larger dogs. Off leash dogs, even those that do not approach him, still trigger a very aggressive reaction. A little spaniel was loose the other day. He could see it, though it was a block away, down a hill, and he didn't put his hackles up or growl or bark, but he would not stop watching for it, even after trees screened our view. I switched directions, so he couldn't look without turning around and quickened my pace, and he settled down gradually. If the dog had been closer, or had noticed us and tried to approach, I don't think turning and speeding up would have helped. I praised him once he relaxed.

I would like to try desensitization training, but I have questions. Before we moved, I had just worked on telling him to "leave it" and giving him a pop on his prong collar, when he would react agressively to dogs we saw on our walks. If we could, we would switch direction and speed up. I hadn't realized desensitization training was needed (I thought his agression was dominance based at first, too.). Now that it is not really cold and not pouring rain outside, I really want to work on this. Do I start with him in our yard, and not reacting to dogs that walk by? Or do I find a place outside the yard where he can see other dogs behind a fence and work on moving closer and closer, slowly, until he doesn't react to them, even if they are barking agressively at him? What exact signals in him should I look for that indicate that he is ingoring the other dogs or is only noticing them, but not concerned, verses the very early signs of aggression (Before he puts his hackles up?)

I hadn't had him in for vaccinations since I adopted him from the shelter in 05.

I want walks with him to be enjoyable again, not stressful.

Are there a lot of off-leash dogs?

What do you do when a leashed dog approaches? What is his aggressive reaction?

" He also is improving on ignoring on-leash dogs, though that is going slower. He will still react agressively if they are larger dogs."

I've never lived in an area with more off-leash dogs. I've found two routes that generally are free of dogs that have been left free in their yards (within our neighborhood, I once went for a walk of less than a mile and counted over six dogs left free in their yards and some dogs are left free only at certain times). I can't predict when someone who lives here will walk their dog off-leash, despite leash laws, or when people from the nearby RV park will have their dogs out without a leash (which seems doubly-irresponsible to me, since the dog is unfamiliar with the area).

If we meet another dog coming toward us, I move off to the side,if there is room, and put Sutter into a sit-stay. He will sit calmly, though alertly, until the other dog leaves. If it is a big dog, especially if it barks or growls at him, he will still have his hackles up and strain at the leash a bit. If there isn't room to move aside, I will cross the street, but he'll still put his hackles up, though he usually doesn't growl or strain at the leash unless the other dog does too. There are exceptions. There are a pair of malamutes who walk by everyday, who ignore him, but he always strains toward them if we happen to be walking at the same time, even if I cross the street. He reacts the worst toward them, even though they never notice him. I've tried going to some of the more rural roads, but they don't have shoudlers, and I get nervous walking by 55 mph traffic with no shoulders on the roads.

I've been reading a lot of the old thread in this forum, figuring that other people probably have similar problems and the more info and ideas, the better. It occurs to me that while we live in our previous town, Sutter had about 4 other dogs that we walked with regularly. A friend of mine had two toy poodles we walked witha bout once a week, and another neighbor had an English setter and a shizuh, and she walked with us about three times a week. He never had any problems with these dogs at all. We also had a walking path along the river that was away from homes, so no barking dogs in their yards. Despite some problems, we had lots of positive on-leash walking experiances. Since we've moved, because of the number of off leash dogs, walks have been tense, and I wonder if his behavior has gotten worse because he has started associating walks with negative experiences and corrections.

Also, though he is never out off leash on purpose, he has gotten out a few times--the results of a 3-yr-old figuring out how to both unlock and open the front door. When he has been running on his own, until I catch up and call him back, he doesn't act agressively toward other dogs he meets. I found him playing in the park with a neighbors GSD once, and another time he was visiting the dog across the street through the fence, very friendly and happily. He did the same with another neighbor's labs.

I noticed in other threads that some people said fear agressive dogs will feel trapped on the leash, so that if closer encounters with another dog cannot be avoided, being on leash makes them feel more tense.

Obviously, this doesn't change needing to desensitize and continue doing basic ob., but I wondered if the leash might have become part of the problem.

Just a silly question, but are you feeling tense on these walks when another dog approaches? Sutter can feel your tension through the leash and see it in your body language. I have to forcibly remind myself to breathe deeply and relax when walking my dog or he tenses when I do. Just a dumb thought.
(regular deep breathing helps relax my occassionally overwrought parrot as well. lol)

How true or helpful this is, I don't know cause I haven't put it to the test (except during a thunderstorm and it seemed to work with my at the time 9 week old pup), but I've read that yawning is recognized by dogs as a means of releasing stress. The dog sees you yawn and may even yawn in return. The yawn itself supposedly causes a chemical change (probably the increased intake of oxygen does it) that relaxes muscles, like the diaphragm and maybe even the muscles reaching down the leash.