Hi Joy! Thank you for typing all that out. I think I practice
the leadership skills/posture/attitude well but as you say,
you don't have the video. There must be a way I can improve
here, given his brattiness.

I'm naturally more of a permissive/laughing type of person
rather than an outright martinet. When I 'project' myself
towards him, I have to admit I'm 'acting at being a very
serious individual.'

I might have to try ratcheting
myself up towards the more serious levels with him. I am
doubtful though that attitude alone will change the brattiness...
Do you work with many GSD's? I only ask because it seems I
have no problem asserting control with the strange dogs we
meet...that aren't my carefully-handled GSD.

My brother just told me that Czak did a 'pull 'n' pound' to him
today...grabbed his hood during play, pulled his head down and
headbutted him. These antics crack us up mightily and might
be part of the problem.

In fairness I have to say he has improved a million percent
with how rough he is with his mouth with us. He is such a
good boy 98% of the time, but he is definitely defiant and
bratty the other 2%.

 Quote: webboard user

Hi Joy! Thank you for typing all that out. I think I practice
the leadership skills/posture/attitude well but as you say,
you don't have the video. There must be a way I can improve
here, given his brattiness.

I'm naturally more of a permissive/laughing type of person
rather than an outright martinet. When I 'project' myself
towards him, I have to admit I'm 'acting at being a very
serious individual.'

I recently posted a message on a thread titled "dominance" that outlines differences in behaviors of canines of different statuses from alpha through omega. Acting like a "martinet" is not being a leader. That would be like your were not certain of your role so trying to prove yourself. An alpha leader does not have to prove him/herself. Use the analogy of a monarch instead. It might be more clear if you read that message. Search under "dominance" or active topics over the last week.

 Quote: webboard user

I might have to try ratcheting
myself up towards the more serious levels with him. I am
doubtful though that attitude alone will change the brattiness...

No, it won't. I am a strong believer in combining attitude with training, exercise, and mental stimulation. Especially with an adolescent.

 Quote: webboard user

Do you work with many GSD's?

I began a four year apprenticeship with a K9 trainer in the 60s. I trained potrol dogs and bomb detection. Almost exclusively GSDs, as that was before Malinois had become known in law enforcement. Soon after I learned guide dog training at The Seeing Eye, in Morristown N.J. In those days we used many more GSDs than retrievers. I have been hooked on the breed for most of my life, and have tained too many to count. More than half of all the canines I've ever worked with have been GSD (close to 3000); but I've also worked with breeds of all breed types (groups), wolves, wolfdogs, taught 4-H, and been involved with in other dog related activities from rescue and shelters to KC board member and ob trials.

 Quote: webboard user

My brother just told me that Czak did a 'pull 'n' pound' to him
today...grabbed his hood during play, pulled his head down and
headbutted him. These antics crack us up mightily and might
be part of the problem.

Finding his actions funny will do the same thing for an adolescent dog as an adolescent boy. Increase snotty behavior. If he had head butted your brother in the wrong spot, he could have been seriosly injured or even killed. This is not a laughing matter!

 Quote: webboard user

In fairness I have to say he has improved a million percent
with how rough he is with his mouth with us. He is such a
good boy 98% of the time, but he is definitely defiant and
bratty the other 2%.

Great!

I have not given you any specific training advice, as I have never been involved in sport training and competintions. I believe you named that as a goal. So if you need specifics, either find a trainer or club that does that, or ask someone else here for that advice. Finding a club would probably be a good idea anyway, as even without being involved in dog sports, I can see how going it alone would be more difficult even if you were experienced.

Thank you for all that information, Joy! You have really helped
me pinpoint a little better which direction to go in. I can
see you are quite an expert and I am not worthy to get so
much advice, so thank you very much for helping. I will go
read up the posts you mentioned.

I wouldn't allow Czak to do things like that to me, but my
brother is in more of a playmate position with him. My
brother is a big strong man and won't be dying any time soon
from play wrestling with the dog, just to reassure you. Oh...
maybe you meant the dog? That could be a concern but I
think my bro is careful. Since headbutting is kind of
unnatural for a dog I'm imagining it was probably just going
in for a better grip. Still, I see what you mean about
egging him on with laughing...that will be a tough one for
us to stop but we will work on it.

ps: I have selected a club to work with but they aren't holding
training sessions over the winter, I have to wait til spring.
But it's on the horizon for sure!

I was referring to a person getting hit in the nose hard enough, and at the right angle to send bone back into the brain. It would be rare, but possible.

Glad I could help.

Lol, not worthy????? Come on. Everyone can enjoy their dogs and pass advice or thoughts around. Its a conversation between people. You're as worthy as any body on here. Lol.....

Heh Steve, I just meant that I really appreciate the people
here with a lot of experience that share that with new posters.
I've also gotten a lot from your posts, most especially since
I think my attitude is naturally somewhat close to yours.
I don't expect knowledge or products for free so awesome boards
such as this continually amaze me and make me feel grateful.

I think I have a few items now on my list to work on at this
stage...a bit more aloofness, finding a smarter way to reward
being near me on walks, working more often on restrained
recalls, and most especially working more on focus when other
dogs are present.

I have to say to your last post, Joy, that Martzes just don't
go out like that.

Shoot! Sorry for the double post but I missed the edit time.
Just wanted to thank Joy for that dominance post, I found it
to be awesome. Made a lot of sense and fits with my current
knowledge of the issue.

 Quote: Webboard User

Shoot! Sorry for the double post but I missed the edit time.
Just wanted to thank Joy for that dominance post, I found it
to be awesome. Made a lot of sense and fits with my current
knowledge of the issue.

Thanks.

I haven't been ignoring you but have been away for the holiday. Good luck on the training.

A quick update...our crate training and my change in attitude have been changing things, I think!. Joy mentioned thinking 'monarch' rather than napoleon and I really identified with that. I pick certain times to be aloof, but when I bring him out to the field I turn it on with afterburners. I can see he looks to me like 'What kind of fun are we going to be having here?' when I take him places, after the first sniff round if it's a new place. I partly had this before this thread, but now I'm concentrating on cementing it and it's been a good thing!

I didn't expect this much from this puppy but he has always exceeded my expectations. Thank you for the help! I'm sure I will have more questions as the work progresses.