cryptochortid/monorchid
#260294 - 12/27/2009 08:39 PM |
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I've done a lot of on-line reading up on this, but my 20 month old AK husky has only one testicle descended. I am extremely loathe to have him operated on- I have had really bad experiences with vets, and having had abdominal surgery myself know how serious it is don't trust most vets to do this. I haven't been able to feel the retained testicle in his abdominal area, and neither has the vet. Research articles on this are poorly done and/or inconclusive. If I knew he would get testicular cancer with the retained I would have it out, but the risk from surgery may be just as great- or greater, than the risk of cancer. Also, from articles I've read, it seems this is not necessarily genetic, may be just due phsyiological issues or twisting of the cord as the testicle came down. Does anyone have experience with this? If you did surgery how hard was it on the dog? If you didn't did your dog get testicular cancer? From everything I've read it looks like I have a safe 3 years more to make a decision but I love this dog and want to do the right thing by him. I would not neuter him, just get the one removed. He is a non-aggressive, top-notch skijor dog.
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Kiersten Lippman ]
#260302 - 12/27/2009 09:50 PM |
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... If I knew he would get testicular cancer with the retained I would have it out, but the risk from surgery may be just as great- or greater, than the risk of cancer.
Well, I've read that the risk of neoplasia in retained testis is about ten times what it is in a regular scrotal testis. But what is the risk in a scrotal testis? That I don't know.
Maybe looking up rates for seminomas and Sertoli cell tumors (I think the two most common in this situation) will give you clearer odds, or numbers.
... From everything I've read it looks like I have a safe 3 years more to make a decision .... I would not neuter him, just get the one removed. ...
If you were removing the abdominal testis after full growth, wouldn't you neuter at the same time?
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Kiersten Lippman ]
#260304 - 12/27/2009 09:58 PM |
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Our lab Einstein had the surgery. No problems at all. It's a pretty common condition and I've never heard of a dog having problems with the surgery. It just rules out the low cost clinics.
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#260309 - 12/28/2009 04:48 AM |
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Well, I've read that the risk of neoplasia in retained testis is about ten times what it is in a regular scrotal testis. But what is the risk in a scrotal testis? That I don't know.
it's usually because almost always they remove both. Really the art of treating performance dogs vs the common housepet is a really niche field for now. Most vets will look at you like a crazy person if you even suggest performance/testosterone link or perhaps there are effects besides lack of ability to reproduce with a neuter.
To the OP: In small dogs it's a pretty common health (albeit undesired) event to lose one as your dog matures between 4-8 months. There is vast speculation about if it's genetic or not but just as Hip and elbow displasia may or may not be genetic there is no magic way to tell one way or another. You have the dog you're looking at, it's why they usually suggest genetic death aka neuter. Personally I'd suggest you do a vasectomy when you have the retained testicle removed, all the testosterone with none of the possible puppy action. While it won't remove the cancer risk at least you'll be in a position to be aware of abnormalities, you'll likely want to have a traditional neuter done after your dog is done pulling at 7-8 years old.
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Melissa Thom ]
#260310 - 12/28/2009 06:32 AM |
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Widget had this, but it was clearly visible under the skin if you picked him up. It turned out that it was right under the skin, not in the abdomen at all, and the jacka$$ vet neutered him anyway, despite KNOWING I was only neutering him because I thought I had no choice due to the retained testicle. I'm sure you can all imagine how happy I was.
Anyway, my vet (different vet than did the surgery) told me it was perfectly safe to wait until he was around 5, because the cancer risk increases with time. It has to do somehow with heat in the abdomen and the danger is that in the abdomen it's much more likely to spread than in the scrotum where it belongs, should cancer occur. Widget was 5 when I had it done. He's 10 now, and other than having the typical disgustingly un-muscular body of a neutered animal...he's ok. Same bratty dog he was before, and I think this has to do w/age at time of operation.
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#260322 - 12/28/2009 09:59 AM |
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One of my Shepherds had this also. I had his surgery done when he was 2 (he is 4 now) and they could not find the other testicle when they opened him up. He did fine after the surgery, it wasnt long at all before he was back to his old self. I didnt want to have the surgery done but also didnt want him to possibly develop cancer down the road either. Now I'm left with wondering if its still in there or not since I was told a true monochrid is very rare.
Note: A few months ago I talked with a different vet about this - he called someone at a veterinary hospital - they said there is a test you can do to verify if their is a testicle still retained. You take blood sample from the dog - give them a shot of something(sorry cant remember name) and then retake the blood sample - the shot stimulates the retained testicle (if there is one) so the second blood sample would have higher hormone levels.
I am thinking about doing this in the near future (it would cost about $200) but will have to get more specifics of what they inject them with, more details before hand.
Good Luck
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#260328 - 12/28/2009 10:08 AM |
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Thanks for the replies. I'm still not sure where I'll go with this. If I trusted my vet more, rather than just seeing her as going with the party line and wanting to nueter every animal that passes through her door, I'd feel more able to discuss the pros and cons of the surgery and/or neutering.
Can anyone direct me to recent research on this topic? I plow through scientific journal articles for my job, and could understand the jargon for the most part. I don't have access to the full text of many articles I've found (without paying a fee), though most people discussing the issue seem to reference a study done about 30 years ago with questionable methods and analysis.
In the meantime, maybe I need to find a new vet. I know Leerburg has recommendations, but does anyone know of a good vet for working dogs in the Metrowest Boston area? Framingham, Newton, Natick (MA)? I took my old dog to Tufts and HATED it. I know they have a top-notch reputation but I had a really bad experience there- plus the cost is super high.
Thanks for your thoughts. Until now I've always had rescued dogs who were already nuetered and I certainly do see a difference in musculature (along with higher food requirements) in my intact male and none of the behavioral issues vets warn about.
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Kiersten Lippman ]
#260334 - 12/28/2009 10:22 AM |
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Kathy,
Thanks for telling me about the blood test- I wasn't aware of that, and it sounds like a good tool. I was wondering, too if an ultrasound would work to locate the retained, but, if so, I probably wouldn't hear of any cases like yours where the vet fished around for an hour and found nothing. Good luck with your guy!
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Re: cryptochortid/monorchid
[Re: Kiersten Lippman ]
#260336 - 12/28/2009 10:34 AM |
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I did have a ultrasound done too a few months ago by the vet who talked to me about the blood test - it did not show anything, this is a SMALL town so not sure if their equipment is the most up to date or not and if that makes a difference. They did not charge me thankfully because they had their doubts that an ultrasound would find anything. But it is an option. Good luck in your research, I'm hoping someone on the board has some good info/more research for you to check into.
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