Hi,
I have a 6 month old bullmastiff, which I have trained myself so far following the advice on your "puppy 8 weeks to 8 months" DVD.
I have used food treats and he already know the sit, down, come and no commands (very valuable information on this DVD) !!
My question is this: now that I intend to start formal obedience training (I have already purchased a prong collar), should I continue to use treats or not, and for how long ?
I believe I will have to stop some time, correct ?
I mean, when he sees that I have my treat bag, he is performing quite well to all the commands, now he must be trained to mind even when I do not have to bribe him, is it correct ?
How do we accomplish that ?
Thanks in advance for your time...

Tony, are you using marker training? or do you just give the pup a treat when he does something you like? If you are not using marker training, read up on it here, and ask questions if something's not clear.

Most people here don't view marker training, and the subsequent reward when the dog performs the behavior you want, as bribing. You ask for a behavior, the dog complies, you reward...

Your next step is to work on compliance with slowly escalating levels of distraction. Once your dog is performing well at various levels of distraction and in various places, then you can think about correcting if he doesn't obey you. You have to be very sure that your pup understands exactly what you are asking of him before you give a correction.

The other thing you can think about is adding a toy as a reward into your repertoire. Does he like to tug? I know my bullmastiff-mix at 6 months was just starting to develop real interest in toys, such as tugs and balls (Orbee ball on a string). You will be surprised at how snappy the obedience becomes when your pup is in higher drive than food drive.

Lynne, thanks for the reply.
In the beginning I was doing exactly what Ed suggested in his dvd (puppy 8 weeks to 8 months).
Later, I started marker training as seen in the dvd "the power of training dogs with food".

The dog has a very clear understanding of the come, sit, down and no commands, so i figured out that it is time to move on and eliminate treats. Is it OK, should i progress, as you suggest, to adding distractions (following the marker training with treats)and then move on to corrections or should i move straight on to corrections and start eliminating treats ?

I forgot to mention that he does not play with a toy more than 5-10 seconds...

 Quote: tony kakaniaris

.... The dog has a very clear understanding of the come, sit, down and no commands, so i figured out that it is time to move on and eliminate treats. Is it OK, should i progress, as you suggest, to adding distractions (following the marker training with treats)and then move on to corrections or should i move straight on to corrections and start eliminating treats ?

If you haven't introduced gradually increasing distractions and changes of venue, then all you can really know is that the dog understands sit where you have
commanded sit. So no, I don't correct before doing both of these gradual processes.

"should i progress, as you suggest, to adding distractions (following the marker training with treats?" That's what I do. Marking and rewarding under slight (at first) distraction. Venue changes too, but not a venue change along with another form of distraction yet.

JMO.

Thanks a lot Connie...
Truth is, as far as I can remember, that he is performing quite well even in moderate to big distractions (when he was on a dog kennel with other dogs trying to socialize, when he was on a walk with another male playing, when walking in the street etc), but I haven't thought about it until you mentioned that...
But, OK I got the point, thanks for the reply...

Tony, although you do not need to reward every command with food, you have to keep in mind that the expectation of a reward is what keeps the dog motivated to perform.

Certainly if you are training new behaviors you want to continue to use food.

If your dog responds well to verbal or physical praise, you could try substituting praise for food rewards for commands that he already knows.

I'd love it if any else out there would put their 2 cents in re phasing out food rewards!