Okay ..

Lets say the dogs are 100% crate trained. They make it through the night, never pee or poop in the crate and are perfect perfect in the crate.

This is not house broken (which is of course the goal). What is the next step?.

They still pee-pee or going poopy when I'm not looking and they are playing in their room. I supervise them, but sometimes they just run around run around run around and pee. Blink of an eye fast. I turn my head to pet one or get some water and BLAM! Especially my GSD, he doesn't show any clue or sign. At least Finkie circles and then gets her butt real low. I at least have a chance to catch her in the act. Zero warning from GSD. But they're super in the crate.

I'm stumped. Please Please Help. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Thanks,
DHC

If the dog is crate trained hopeflly that means you are taking them out to potty. The dogs have to be fed on schedule to potty on schedule. If you crate trained them and fed on a schedule you should know when that is. The dogs should be use to going potty outside.You still have to use good judgement when they are out of the crate so they dont have the opportunity to go in the house. They will eventually get it if you stay on top of it. You still need to use the crate when you cant watch the dog until the dog learns it.You have to use the crate as a tool to manipulate the situation so the dog doesnt have the chance to go potty in the house.

That's pretty much what I'm doing. Hmm .. alright .. maybe it will just take a bit longer.

I'm happy that they don't go in the crate. We feed on a regular schedule. And we're consistent with when we take them out.

They actually GO when they are out - with good consistency. But then they going again inside at random.

Weird Puppies.
DHC

They are not wierd puppies, they are totally NORMAL puppies...

It takes a while to get to the point where you don't have to watch them like a hawk, but they WILL get there... I promise.

Puppies go after they sleep, after they play (or sometimes during play) and after they eat or drink... so that pretty much means unless they are sleeping... they are an accident waiting to happen!

Thanks for teh re-assurance!! Some kind encouragement from more knowledgable folks makes these day all worthwhile!

And of course I meant "Weird" in a good way.
DHC

I'm just learning all this too David, so my advice is novice at best. But I'll tell you what worked for our puppy who's now almost 14 weeks old in the hopes some of it helps <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

I found what went really fast with Titan was having him just "live" with us. What I mean by that is letting him out of the crate when we were on the pc, watching tv and making dinner. Just general normal everyday living things.

We kept a close eye on him, and if he started to make a mistake, shook a can with some pennies in it to startle him and took him right outside to finish up. No corrections. He quickly learned that the whole house where we live is part of the den and won't go in it.

Play with the pups on the dining room floor. Let them sit and chew on a bone in the computer room while you do your stuff. Let him watch you do the dishes. Your pup will enjoy being with you in a relaxed way and you'll enjoy the company. As you do this, your pup will start to associate these spaces as den space.

Oh and TONS of praise when he goes outside! I even sing a lil silly song to him and he loves it! I love watching his little/large body wriggle with happiness when I sing his song hehe. Even if he doesn't have to go he'll try and squeeze out some drops when I tell him to just for that praise <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Cory .. I think you're right! I'm really consider re-thinking this whole crate strategy.

Perhaps the only way to get him off the crate is just to get him out of it.

Thanks!
DHC