considering we weren't even licking at the boots of the quality stuff coming out of china and japan at the time yeah. It amazes me still the value of these guys. We normally sold at least ten 6"-8" a year for $1500 - 1800 and that was in 1990 dollars. Most of the nicer looking ones were under $200 and fair small pond starters for about $50.

Koi are a costly proposition to do correctly. I know if I had to do things over again that I would make some big changes to our setup and process. I know I wouldn't bother with a pond shallower than 5' in any part, I would spend way more money on the filtration system, and design the yard around the pond as opposed to the pond to fit in the yard.

 Quote: melissa thom

I would spend way more money on the filtration system, and design the yard around the pond as opposed to the pond to fit in the yard.

YES!!! My dream client. Filtration is the "pack structure/ground work" of the fish world.

I think when I get my last child off to Boot Camp I'll look into putting in a Koi pond. So is it better just to go big from the start? if it doesnt work I can always let the puppers use it

I was thinking of building a koi pond when I was looking for a house. Got a bunch of books, read them all. Got mired in the filtration systems. Nitrogen plants - whatever plants - yadda yadda, the all-natural 3-stage filtration? Nah. Besides, every author mentioned that sooner or later all their pets turned belly up one fine morning Maybe later some day. Maybe I will just go name those red fishes in the lake. Yep.

eta: in fact, I did name a couple of nice white-and-brown geese in the same park some years ago, Kisa and Osya. There was a county-wide operation to reduce goose poop in parks, never seen the boys since. They must have moved them to Canada, to a nice farm

Dennis, I've never had a client say "I sure wish I had built it smaller" and I've had MANY say "I sure wish I had listed to you and built it bigger".

Budget, size of property (in consideration of scale to pond) and the clien'ts desire to house either koi or just goldfish dictate the size of the pond, in a residential setting - IMHO.

I started 23 years ago with an 8' x 11, then w'ent to an 11' x 16' and thought THAT was heaven. You know what I have now.

You DON'T have to go that large (and I would not advise it for the majority of folks), but you don't want to build a puddle either.

When you are ready, I'll be glad to advise, but will have to charge the same outlandish consult fees you've charged me on dog-training. What goes around, comes around.

How sensitive are these carp? I'm if I get the PH a little out of whack or my son drops a bag of M&Ms into the pond, am I going to have a bunch of belly up floaters?

 Quote: dennis jones

I think when I get my last child off to Boot Camp I'll look into putting in a Koi pond. So is it better just to go big from the start? if it doesnt work I can always let the puppers use it

Get a water feature consultant who knows koi ponds is my advice and visit alot of homes with koi ponds to see what they like and what they don't like. Honestly most people wouldn't get Koi if they knew what "doing it right" entailed.

Koi pond design should be based on ease of cleaning, appropriate size for the number of inches of fish the owner wants, predator deterrents, and finally looks. A well designed pond requires fewer hours of maintenance, drains with ease with no current "dead spots" which breed disease, is too deep or is inaccessible to fish predators like raccoons, otters, eagles, or herons, and should be able to be viewed from above in comfort.

 Quote: Dennis Jones

How sensitive are these carp? I'm if I get the PH a little out of whack or my son drops a bag of M&Ms into the pond, am I going to have a bunch of belly up floaters?

I used to feed mine cheetos. Really they are tougher than we give them credit for. Water quality or predators in my experience are the normal killers of these guys.

PH being a little off is fine assuming you're not trying to breed the suckers.

 Quote: dennis jones

How sensitive are these carp? I'm if I get the PH a little out of whack or my son drops a bag of M&Ms into the pond, am I going to have a bunch of belly up floaters?

They are pretty hardy - more so than you might think. However, they have particular needs - as do we and our dogs. pH in the range of 7.4 - 7.5 is normal for koi and goldfish, but they are tolerant of slighly higher or lower as long as it is not a sudden fluctuation.

For the vast majority of folks, goldfish are the better choice. Koi need a much greater volumn of water and a larger filtration system (my bog is 8 x 11 x 4' plus skimmer and separate aeration. If I could have a "do-over" I'd add a bottom drain and I would not have neutered Falcon... ). My well provides spot-on water pH, but I monitor for changes in that level as well as for ammonia/nitrites. (More so after a water change, not as often once established).

I learned how much there is for me to learn by teaching "Introduction to Water Gardening" at a local college a few years ago. I failed to research the effects of M & M's on a closed system water feature, but do know that koi love cheerios, peas, frog legs (!!! Found the first specimen of the seaon at the bottom of the pond today.. just a body with all four legs chewed off!!) head of lettuce and oatmeal (not cooked).