Lets say that my puppy knows the meaning of Sit and has done sit 100s of times. I ask my puppy to sit and she refuses the command. Should I correct the puppy? The puppy in question is a 3.5~4 months old sight hound. She is very smart and very loving but once in a while will refuse to obey. I have tried saying "Nien" in a stern voice and reissued the command with out success, I have reissued the command in a pleasant voice with out any verbal corrections. Finally I have to resort to just pushing her bum down to the ground and saying "good girl" .

At what age does correction start for refusal of command. I am talking about a soft pop to a firm pop to a hard pop on the leash with normal collar. I am also interested in knowing at what age the pup can be introduced to a prong collar.

It is not a problem with just sit, but with a few more commands. She does not obey me for treats, she usually obeys even with out treats but once in a while she will just lock up and look at me like she does not understand a word I am saying or just avert her gaze away like "talk to the hand".

Ram

Edited by Ramachandran Subramanian (05/24/2010 12:55 PM)
Edit reason: More info added

16 weeks is still pretty young to expect 100% compliance, IMO. She's too young for a prong collar (also IMO), and too young for much in the way of corrections. It could be a matter of attention span. If she's done 3 sits in a row, she could be done. Don't push her past the point that you know she will succeed; instead, gradually build up to longer and longer sessions that require her attention.

But I totally understand the "talk to the hand" response! Ha! My Corgi is the queen of that.

Couple of things come to mind: simply stand there and wait for the sit. Don't keep saying the command over and over. Say it once, and then expect the response. If you're sure she heard you and knows the command, stand silently, firmly, and wait for her to sit. She will eventually. You don't want her to think that NOT complying is an option.

BTW--pushing down on her butt may actually get the opposite response--the opposition reflex where she pushes back against your hand. Instead lure her into a sit with a hand gesture that starts at her eye level and then up and back--ideally she'll follow your hand and naturally lean back into the sit.

For some commands, like "Come"--I wouldn't ask it if you cannot enforce compliance. Like on a long line. If the pup doesn't come, go get her.

Too young to be 100% compliant - too many young impulses to control.

You may think this is funny (I did - but must be something to it) but some testers do not require the Greyhounds to sit for their Canine Good Citizen - something about it being uncomfortable for their hips.

14 months in a dog is roughly the age of a 6 year old human.

Should be able to follow your simple directions most of the time, but occasionally does not. I have seen a few 1st grade teachers that WISH they could use prong collars or e-collars!!

Make the offer too good to refuse from an INDUCIVE point of view, not a compulsive one, and you'll not regret it.

I would highly recommend Leerburg's Training with Markers and Training with Food DVD's. I'll bet there are some pups strutting their stuff in them!

Thanks for the response. I have the 3 set DVD on Training with food, markers and playing tug and the 2 set DVD pup 8weeks-8 months and Establishing pack structure.

She will ignore my command almost always when we are back from the walk. The ritual is , I say do you want to go for a walk , and get their tail wagging. Then they have to sit (which happens) and I put on the leash and open the door, lead them out(I go first) and then make them sit again as I lock the gate, take them for a walk, come back and again sit at the gate, I open the gate, and lead them in (again I go first) then make them sit again to take off the leash and then have a huge party with them.

So going for a walk involves 4 sits. She usually refuses when we come back and I ask her to sit before I open the gate.

What is in it for her? A pat and a good girl, but every single day I train sit with treats. I make her sit atleast 20 times every day and give her a piece of chicken or mutton.

I never carry treats with me when I go for a walk. May be I will start doing that and use it when things get sticky.

Atleast from an academic viewpoint I would like to know at what age can a puppy be introduced to a prong collar.



Ram

6 months is usually when you can add physical corrections.

Getting you to open the door or gate is also what's in it for her. Don't open the gate until she sits. You might stand there for three minutes. But eventually she will sit-- even just from boredom. Bit then you get to immediately open the gate and show her that her action caused it. Same with removing the leash (I do this also)-- after you say sit just stand there until she does. When she sees that neither of you are going anywhere she'll eventually sit--then you mark it with praise, marker word, click, etc. and snap off the leash and release her. That's the reward.

I want to add that just because she understands "sit" in some situations, if she has not been then worked up to the command under different circumstances and with gradually more and more distractions, she doesn't REALLY know sit.

If she has been taught to sit in the house, the command may not mean the same thing to her outside. Once she understands the word means the same when she is outside, then some distractions mix things up again, etc...

It CAN be a bit perplexing when they don't seem to know what you mean or seem to be ignoring you, but I'd recommend making sure you have taught the command under numerous distractions and many settings before assuming she REALLY knows the command.

 Quote: barbara schuler

I want to add that just because she understands "sit" in some situations, if she has not been then worked up to the command under different circumstances and with gradually more and more distractions, she doesn't REALLY know sit.

If she has been taught to sit in the house, the command may not mean the same thing to her outside. Once she understands the word means the same when she is outside, then some distractions mix things up again, etc...

It CAN be a bit perplexing when they don't seem to know what you mean or seem to be ignoring you, but I'd recommend making sure you have taught the command under numerous distractions and many settings before assuming she REALLY knows the command.

This is sooo true! I taught our 3 yr old golden doggie push ups (which is having them go quickly from stand to down to sit to down to sit, etc). He does it perfectly in the house, but last week when I took him out to the driveway in the front of our house and started giving him the commands, he looked at me like he'd never ever heard that string of commands before! The same has gone for heel - perfect in the house, really bad out in our neighborhood! So you have to teach them these commands in many different places with many different distractions. Even having a person standing in the room will cause some dogs to 'forget' everything you've taught them!

JMO, but I wouldn't use a prong collar for a long time yet. She has to really learn this stuff so that you are 100% sure she knows it before you should correct her for not doing it. I only use a prong collar on a bigger dog that I need more physical control over until they understand walking on a leash. I wouldn't use it for correcting a sit.