You can read more about brachycephalic dogs here http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_brachycephalic.html

Quick anecdote re: dutch shepherds--I was at an obedience trial a few weeks ago and observed a woman come in with a Dutchie puppy. I think they're beautiful dogs, so I asked her some questions about the "livability" factor. Turns out she went to Holland to get him herself, from what she called a "family dog" breeder. She expects this pup to be much mellower than a pup from working lines. I was kind of shocked by this conversation, and I hope I get to see this puppy again someday.

Hey Rob,

Not to shoot your idea in the foot but I always make a policy of reminding people that they should get a dog that matches the lifestyle they actually HAVE, rather than picking a dog to match an exercise program they might have, or think they should have. Exercise programs come and go, you might have ten to fourteen very active years with a dog. I hate seeing a dog suffer because the owner couldn't maintain a program that a dog needed for stability.

The southwest for ANY dog can be overwhelming in the heat. Perhaps a breed that could tolerate the temps a bit better than a dutchie, a boxer, or a mal would be a better choice for an active lifestyle? I'm fairly confident there is more than a couple dog breeds bred for the desert. It doesn't mean they won't overheat but it doesn't mean form doesn't help function.

As far as exercise programs in the heat of summer in Colorado we moved exercise to night time. Downside is in a city there is less visibility for stuff like broken glass, on the plus side we didn't die of heat stroke. We also used to spend time playing find the ball in the basement on the nastiest of hot days or walking in the local ACed dog friendly mall.

 Quote: meredith hamilton

You can read more about brachycephalic dogs here http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_brachycephalic.html

Quick anecdote re: dutch shepherds--I was at an obedience trial a few weeks ago and observed a woman come in with a Dutchie puppy. I think they're beautiful dogs, so I asked her some questions about the "livability" factor. Turns out she went to Holland to get him herself, from what she called a "family dog" breeder. She expects this pup to be much mellower than a pup from working lines. I was kind of shocked by this conversation, and I hope I get to see this puppy again someday.

Meredith, thank you so much. My answer about the Boxer, unfortunately, is in that reference you gave me:

 Quote:

HEAT STRESS - Because of all these upper respiratory obstructions, the brachycephalic dog is an inefficient panter. A dog with a more conventional face and throat is able to pass air quickly over the tongue through panting. Saliva evaporates from the tongue as air is passed across and the blood circulating through the tongue is efficiently cooled and circulated back to the rest of the body.

In the brachycephalic dog, so much extra work is required to move the same amount of air that the airways become inflamed and swollen. This leads to a more severe obstruction, distress, and further over-heating.

BRACHYCEPHALIC DOGS ARE THE MOST
LIKELY CANDIDATES FOR HEAT STROKE

Doesn't make sense to bring the "most likely candidate for a heat stroke" into the hottest area in the country in summer.

As for the Dutchie's - if I could pick the looks of my ideal dog - it's the Dutchie. That brindle coat is a sight to behold. However, the activity requirements of a Dutchie (and their brothers the Mal) are pretty intimidating. It's interesting that the majority of American Dutchie breeders promote the dog's working ability in protection sports (e.g, "calm, full bites") but NONE of them describe a good dog to integrate into the family. Hence, your acquaintance's need to go all the way to Holland to get one...

 Quote: melissa thom

Hey Rob,

Not to shoot your idea in the foot but I always make a policy of reminding people that they should get a dog that matches the lifestyle they actually HAVE

Shoot away - this is a DISCUSSION forum after all

I completely agree with this philosophy. If more people followed it, there would be fewer animals in the shelter. One of the Mal breeders mentioned that her first approach with potential puppy buyers is to talk them OUT OF buying a Mal, because most don't know what it's like to live with one. The comment was something like, yes, a Mal can do all those things, but can you LIVE with one?

That said, if a person does their research up front, matches the drives and activity level of the dog to their own drives and activity level, it can be done. My son's Border Collie is with us for a year, and will be a good trial of whether I want to add a high-activity breed. So far so good, but it's only been a few weeks. The true test comes when the novelty wears off...

My wife and I mimic the lizards around here activity-wise. Early in the morning and after dark, we scurry around and get everything done that requires alot of movement. During the heat of day, we find a shady rock to sleep under (lol). With the incidence of skin cancer sky high, and half a century of being in the outdoors, we're both pretty conscious the intense sun - for us and for the critters.

Our neighbor of 10 years has the "worlds perfect dog." Kiska is an aging Mal who is just an absolute rock in every circumstance. She walks off-leash with her owners morning and night, ignores the yapper dogs and feral cats, and just goes about her business. Because of her, I know it's possible to raise and live with a happy and healthy Mal here. I suspect she's just a tad lower on the prey-drive scale than most Mals but she is such a good girl with an intuition for what her owners want like no dog I've ever seen.

Thanks, all.

I'm not sure a BC mix is a good comparison for a Malinois...

Could be (because I know very little about Mals) but I know with my border collies they need about 1 hour/day of good training/exercise to be happy. My 11 and 5 y/o dogs are really good/calm in the house though they are both high energy/drive ready to go at a moments notice. The youngster is a little more high maintenance, but she's learning to chill out pretty well, too. I train them with basic manners/obedience sheep work and SAR work. So they do have plenty to do.

Course I live a rather dog centered lifestyle (which is key to any high energy dog) so what may not seem like a lot to me may look very high maintenance to someone else

As far as hips/joints go, I think it's key not to stress them while they're growing. Working dogs are able to cover a lot of ground when fully mature.

 Quote: rob abel

Our neighbor of 10 years has the "worlds perfect dog." Kiska is an aging Mal who is just an absolute rock in every circumstance. She walks off-leash with her owners morning and night, ignores the yapper dogs and feral cats, and just goes about her business. Because of her, I know it's possible to raise and live with a happy and healthy Mal here. I suspect she's just a tad lower on the prey-drive scale than most Mals but she is such a good girl with an intuition for what her owners want like no dog I've ever seen.

You have to be careful with comparisons like this. I see this often where someone has one dog who in their mind has been born with angel wings and uses it to compare all dogs after that one to. Dogs take work, and like children each one is a little different with different degrees of difficulty.

If your goal is to get a mal just like the neighbors dog I would encourage you to rescue an adult dog or get a retired breeder well past puppy antics. Then you know exactly what you are getting vs a puppy who will go through the terrible teens, fear stages, etc. The nice thing about retired breeding dogs from good breeders is that they're often already exceptionally trained, usually have great temperaments, and are extremely healthy. They're also usually not terribly old.

That's a perfect expression - a dog with "angel wings." Her parents apparently wouldn't agree in all circumstances, but I've never seen anything out of her that would indicate otherwise (well...except the way she used to bound off of their gate in the yard when family was away...had some 'seperation issues' unless I'm mistaken)

Thanks, Melissa, but I want a pup. I'm aware that it's a crapshoot as to what you will get, but I love being with them through all the stages - have raised several in my lifetime. I want to be able to socialize him/her in my environment. I can't control the genetic component, but I sure as heck can control the experiential one.