I have a low-drive super soft dog that I compete with in AKC obedience. I would like to try to get her qualified in MR1 obedience also. She does enjoy training, and performs with enthusiasm during practice.

1st question:

What do you guys use for touch pads?

Laya (my dog) finished her CD in the first three attempts with one first place win and two second place wins. She has close to zero prey drive, and her food drive is medium. This is my first low drive dog (she's a rescue) so I am learning about a whole new world of training.

In practice, through marker work (I have the M.E. focused heeling vid), she is great and very showy. In the ring, however, she is a pill on the heel-free. Once she figures out there is no food involved, she's compliant, but laggy and distracted. I have been working and working at duration, and she's on a variable reinforcement schedule. I am considering attempting to correct the lack of focus with an e-collar (like M.E. describes). She acts like I beat her with a 2X4 with even a verbal correction.

2nd question:

Anybody have experience with cleaning up behaviors with low-level stim on ecollar for a soft dog? Good, bad, ugly? I don't want to ruin the work ethic and confidence I've struggled to build in her!!!

The people in my Open Ob practice class say "Laya needs to read her breed standard."

Here's Laya in action (in the ring :eek - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03LAVKbrCbw

Just to be clear, she is much improved since that vid, and I will try to post a vid of her current skills for comparison.

Lisa, from the video she looks like she's enjoying herself, just really low key. If she doesn't take a verbal correction too well I'm not sure about the e-collar. She might be more withdrawn. There are times in the video where it looks like she's got a little spark, then she slows down again. Not sure how to correct that.

Can't really help you here, but just wanted to say she looks like a really sweetie

Hi Lisa!

1) I use rubber feed tubs to begin with and than down size to butter tub lids. I recommend getting his marker training DVD. It is really good.

2) I personally would not use an e-collar on a soft dog. In fact, a few weeks ago I had this discussion with Michael Ellis in regards to my dog Frost who has environmental sensitivities and can be soft. He said that while he would recommend acclimating her to a collar for the purpose of having her know what the collar is in case it is used in the future, he would not use the collar to correct her at this point. Granted, every dog is different so what he recommended for Frost might not be what he would recommend for your girl but I would not go to electric without consulting with someone who has a lot of experience using electric.

Watching the video she looks like a really nice girl! You appeared to be a bit nervous - were you? I am a neurotic person on average and hit overload on trial days. I have had to learn to chill or my dogs just start reading my stress level and than go down hill performance wise.

I would recommend becoming more animated yourself and see if that will get her up. If she is animated in practice but not in trials I would work to stimulate trials more often. A lot might be your nerves that she is reading. Do you have fun matches in your area? It might improve the more the two of you work on your competition performances.

When I start an exercise and the judge asks, "are you ready?" I tell my dog to watch and when she is looking at me I look at the judge and say, We are READY!" in a happy up voice. The judges all seem to smile when I do this :-) Plus it makes my dog happy.

I also move very purposeful in my heeling to help keep her engaged. In between exercises I get her to release stress by jumping up and nose bonking my hand.

Granted, with a low drive dog you are going to have to experiment to find a stress release that will work for her but finding it is worth the effort.

How is she in the retrieves? I had a dog with zero toy/prey drive that I had to work and work to do the retrieves but in the end it became his favorite exercise and he lived for his dumbbell.

Good luck in the Open ring!

Hi Ingrid,

I have been working on being pleasant and upbeat at show time! Yes, in that vid I was nervous as it was only my second time in the ring. I need to remember that this is supposed to be fun - for me and the dog!

I consider myself to be marker-savvy, as I originally used this method to train parrots with great success!

This is the first dog that has been challenging for me as I have always had higher drive dogs, and most clients I encounter have the exhuberent type.

I have the marker training vid and the power of food vid.

I taught Laya the retreive and she's great... Very happy to get the dumbell. However, at the trial last weekend, she trotted right around the high jump, picked up the db, and trotted right back around. The judge said, "She sure is proud of herself." I had to giggle, too. So, she NQ'd. She had never seen that type of jump before, so this week we are finding all kinds of different things to jump and retreive with. Next show is this Saturday.

The vid in the newsletter - http://leerburg.com/leerburgweeklynews.htm - Mike talks about using the ecollar precisely for the issue I'm having with the focused heel. Also, see this - http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/5-18-10-news.flv

I'm just wondering if anybody has any insight (details) or experience. Also, I want to be clear that my training plan would be using LOW-LEVEL Stim, possibly even pager?

By the way, your website and the training you put into your cattle dog clan is fantastique! I'm always pleased to see an 'off-breed' working!

Hi Lisa,

Thanks for the compliments on my crew! I am always happy to hear people call my breed an off-breed. I don't want the secret of how great a breed they are to get out :-p

In the clip that you mentioned, Michael is talking about using nicks to reinforce focus on dogs whose drive won't carry them all the way through. As I am sure you know, drive and soft temperment are two seperate things for the most part.

My bitch is drivey as all get out but she is soft on corrections in obedience (not soft when in protection mode). If your girl acts like you are beating her with a 2x4 on a verbal correction, I personally would not take the electric route unless you are working with someone like Michael Ellis. I worked on building the drive and the anticipation of a reward in my girl so that she wants to focus on me because if I correct too much she gets worried and goes flat. Again, this is just what worked for my dog and my personal opinion.

Hey, these days, my new German Shepherd puppy will be 'off-breed' for mondioring. There's only one other handler with shepherds in my club. Everyone else has maligators. Actually, my working breed of choice is pit bull terriers. Unfortunately, I now live in Denver, CO, and they have stupid BSL. Laya is a Presa Canario (not on the list). Like we keep telling her, she needs to read her breed standard.

Laya does get worried, like you said, and goes flat, trying to 'fix it' with submissive behavior.

I think for this upcoming show, I will just work on my handling skills (clear language, neg markers, delivery) and being F-U-N.

I guess it depends on the judge, but, how much time can I take to play with Laya in between exercises do ya think?