Quote: chip bridges

My biggest problem with the video (note: not the cop, I only saw what was recorded) was that a punch seems "un-police like." If he had tazed her, used pepper spray, or even whacked her knee with his PR-24, the public would have seen it more as law enforcement protocol than a fist to the nose.

I can't say it was the most appropriate response, but given the set of circumstances and the fact that both of the officer's hands were involved with trying to control the first individual, I can understand how this happened. Could he have done things differently? Of course. Was what he did horrendous? Not in my opinion. I am glad that the gal offered an apology, regardless of whether it was heartfelt or due to that fact that she was on parole for another offence - it has to help ease tensions.

Far from horrendous, in my mind too, anyway. I wouldn't take his job for any salary. That kind of situation is exactly why I never wanted to be a cop.

All the nice holds they teach are crap when you have extra people around. You need your hands free to defend your weapon and yourself. And to those suggesting that he pull his baton: What do you think would have been the headlines if he'd done that? Only real solution to that situation would have been more LE or maybe a dog. Amazing how many people decide they have other things to do when the dog comes out.

I guess I get to say it again. Some departments do not have tasers or carry pepper spray. I don't.

 Quote: Cathy Goessman

I guess I get to say it again. Some departments do not have tasers or carry pepper spray. I don't.

Seattle PD also does not issue either as I understand it as standard equipment although I believe King Co Sheriff's dept does carry pepperspray, and I know I've seen both on a State patrol officer. The budget I'm told is the reason for it since I guess to issue tasers its like $1000+ a device w/o the cartridges to reload. Besides, I can't think of a worse situation to try to deploy either device as close quarter assault with a crowd forming.

Hitting someone in the face isn't as pretty as the takedowns we see on Cops but it is part of the chain of escalation.


Edited by Melissa Thom (06/20/2010 01:02 AM)
Edit reason: spelling is awesome!

Haters gonna hate.

Bas Rutten's Street Fighting, Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCox0f69a04

Go to about 4:05 to watch a variation of the hold I was talking about. It's all about technique. Notice how his body is out of danger, his hand is just below the wrist, and the other person is completely controlled while Bas' base is still solid? It's easy enough to transition the arm behind the back instead of going for the break. Bas Rutten is a former UFC heavyweight champion and a long time bouncer.

Now, compare that to this officer's arm bar technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Zub3HsCLw

You should immediately notice that his entire hand is above the other person's wrist. He has zero control of the wrist and therefore has to use his body weight to drive the suspect down through pressure to the elbow. Again, technique is everything.

You can choose to think what you want about me, I care less than you seem to realize...I just don't appreciate mean spirited humor. My Master has been studying for over 50 years, is a 7th degree black belt, a high ranking official in the association we belong to, studied under Master Chuck Norris (yes, that Chuck Norris), was a nationally ranked full contact fighter in the '80s, and he seems to respect my abilities enough to use me as a student teacher above higher ranking classmates. It takes 62.5 hours to get a black belt in the MCMAP compared to approximately 720 hours in the art I study. I have nearly 400 hours of class time, including the same self defense course that police cadets take at the local JC, and five times that in at-home study/practice. I've used that from bar fights to gangbangers, from single self defense to all-out brawls. I've broken people's bones, I've put them in the ICU, and I put two men near death in self defense without using a weapon...maybe it was the yellow coats. You have no reason to believe any of that any more than I have reason to believe you will. Them's the facts about this armchair shoulda, coulda, woulda, fighter. Am I the best? Absolutely not. But I am good and fight very aggressively.

Flame away, flaming flamers. I won't indulge your trolling.

 Quote: scott garrett

You can choose to think what you want about me, I care less than you seem to realize...I just don't appreciate mean spirited humor. My Master has been studying for over 50 years, is a 7th degree black belt, a high ranking official in the association we belong to, studied under Master Chuck Norris (yes, that Chuck Norris), was a nationally ranked full contact fighter in the '80s, and he seems to respect my abilities enough to use me as a student teacher above higher ranking classmates. It takes 62.5 hours to get a black belt in the MCMAP compared to approximately 720 hours in the art I study. I have nearly 400 hours of class time, including the same self defense course that police cadets take at the local JC, and five times that in at-home study/practice. I've used that from bar fights to gangbangers, from single self defense to all-out brawls. I've broken people's bones, I've put them in the ICU, and I put two men near death in self defense without using a weapon...maybe it was the yellow coats. You have no reason to believe any of that any more than I have reason to believe you will. Them's the facts about this armchair shoulda, coulda, woulda, fighter. Am I the best? Absolutely not. But I am good and fight very aggressively.

Flame away, flaming flamers. I won't indulge your trolling.

I assume what you are saying is true and don't doubt your ability to be aggressive.

I am ignorant on the skills and training of martial arts, but what little bit I've been exposed to (and admit it is very little) has always given me the impression that an important part of the philosophy has to deal with being calm, centered and in control of one's emotions. Yes, the physical skills and ability to protect and inflict lethal harm to another individual if needed are taught, but isn't the main goal of the martial artist to perfect his/her own ego and to rise above the "commotion" (for lack of better word...) I read somewhere that the most effective martial arts move it to "run away" so as to avoid violence. I took it to mean that the artist's first response should be one of thoughtful reaction and consideration to determine if there is another way besides immediate aggression or anger as a way to handle the situation.

Not every comment is meant as mean-spirited, and a bit of humility, along with a funny reply or ability to occassionally laugh at oneself, can go a long, long way in earning respect and simply making things more enjoyable. IMHO.

You really don't get it, do you scott?
It doesn't matter what you know about technique. It doesn't matter if you're the grand master every student wants to train under. It doesn't even matter if you're the grand poobah of the world with every belt in every style there is on the planet.
The fact of the matter is, you were not there on the street dealing with two young bratty girls and a gathering (perhaps hostile) crowd.
Some here, quite mildly actually, stated that there are what they consider extenuating circumstances in the incident worth considering. To wit, maybe the officer didn't want to hurt the girls, maybe the escalation from something so minor as a jaywalking took him completely by surprise, perhaps his focus really wasn't on the girls as much as on the crowd standing around.
Maybe he could have handled it better, who knows? None of us were there. But it has never been about what you know or don't know.
Get it? You wasn't there, you're not nor ever have been a policeman of any type.
As all arm chair quarterbacks, your opinion is worth exactly the same as anyone elses for any given situation. So I'll leave it to you to gauge what your opinion of every other second guesser in this thread (aside from Mr. Frost) is, and that's exactly what yours is worth.

Now listen up scott.
Even though it has been mentioned by one other in this thread and I feel I've made quite clear, racial slurs have no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. Those words mean more than just a slight at ones personal failings.
I could have written this with racially loaded vindictives throughout, but have refrained from that dubious pleasure because I want you to read this with something of a clear mind.

I expect a full apology. Nothing left handed. No needles. No attempt at satire.

I expect a full unequivocal apology.

You seem to think that the simulator reference was addressing some perception that you have no real-world experience, Scott.

 Quote: scott garrett

Then the training provided by simulators helps hone and fine tune those natural tools, just like pilots.

Perhaps your outrage should be "How dare you reference previous statements by me"?