For further reference you could review my orignal post here:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/281147/page/1#Post281147


I'm simply really confused and would like some further discussion about the topic of corrections. I feel like I have to preface this by writing that I am not attempting to create an uproar. I'm looking for some healthy discussion.

I've been reviewing the Basic OB DVD and reading over articles and forum posts from this site. In doing so, I've come across what appears to be a bit of conflicting advice. For example in the article Ed Frawley's Philosophy on Dog Training he writes:

"The difference between what I do and what these ineffective obedience classes do is that once the dog has learned an exercise with markers I add distractions. When the distraction becomes so high that it promotes disobedience I introduce corrections into the training. This is the cornerstone of my philosophy on dog training. This is the only way to get consistency in training and ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU DIFFERENTLY LACKS EXPERIENCE."

I'm sure Mr. Frawley doesn't need defense, but in his defense, he also very clearly states that a trainer needs to be 100% sure the dog knows what he is being asked to do.

In my orignal post I stated that my 1yr old lab had proven that he knows exactly what "come" means and only disobeyed under heavy distraction. Given statements like the one above and rewatching the come command on the DVD, I expected advice that would lead to a correction phase. Instead I received advice and was guided to posts that encouraged more patience and suggested that the dog knowing what I asked was situational under various distractions. I implied that I should do more reward based training under different distractions. That is different than what I imply from Mr. Frawley's suggestions.

Sooo.... I'm confused. Is there a paradigm shift going on here? I'm very inexperienced. Although I have had many dogs in my life, I've never had a dog that was fully obedient to me. I realize that very likley means I'm doing something wrong. I'd like to get on to doing something right!

To me Aron, while I can't speak for Ed or anyone else, the experience you speak of is knowing when the dog is just blowing you off because there's something a lot more interesting over there.

Say there's a mild distraction and the dog starts in that direction, you recall....the dog stops and returns. You can be reasonably sure he knows the command. Under a distraction something a bit heavier, he ignores you (dogs hear pretty good), in my mind a timely correction is in order. Now he starting to learn he must recall at all times no matter what.

Hope that came out close to some clarity.

Very clear. Thank you!

Possible revelation???? Sometimes markers/rewards do not work under distraction. At this point compulsion/corrections may need to be introduced. I believe Michael Ellis suggests this in his lecture on his philosophy, which can be viewed in the free streaming video section. It just wasn't clicking in my head. I was taking my dog's failure to obey personally. That was a bad mistake. I likely put undue stress on him because of that. Anyway we're moving in the right direction now. Hope this may help someone else in the future!

It's always nice when the lightbulb goes off<g>.