Let me start with "MY DOG IS FIXED" so he can't make any puppies....it is interesting however that when tested his hormone levels are the exact same as you would find in an intact dog (fun lab project for school)


One of my neighbors has an intact female pit bull. I work Ryuk outside daily and most of the time the pitbull is out tied to a tree, her owner sitting there in the shade, so that the dog can run in circles. This is her daily exercise and typically after I'm done working Ryuk I'll let the pitbull play with him as this poor dog is DESPERATE to get some energy out and Ryuk a good neutral "play" dog for her.

This time was a bit different however. I noticed he was a bit lagging with commands once the pit was tied out so I worked him a bit longer than average and made him behave before walking off leash towards the pit bull. For the first time EVER he seems to being having trouble heeling. He held the position fine but was more whiny and clearly frustrated every time I made him stop (which was more than average since I don't like whiney tantrums lol). As it turns out the pit bull was in heat (her owner had no idea). Because Ryuk is fixed I permitted him to play anyways. He did pretty much all of the textbook courting behaviors and would have mounted her had I not told him to "leave it" and return to my side immediately which he did without hesitation.

So he did recall....However should I correct the stud behaviors or just focus on making sure he can be recalled. If so, which should I correct? I figured no mounting, but what about the teasing and licking behaviors? He's a very "polite" dog, it's just this particular female was so receptive she practically backed up under him. Avoidance is going to be a bigger problem soon since most of the new tenants all have intact females. I can't just not work him outside and he is going to come into contact with intact and in heat females again. I know I can prevent him from mounting by calling him off but he will respond when teased and that just takes a simple greeting. I can't just avoid contact by keeping him by me. He won't break a heel but we're often interrupted by other off leash dogs and it's hard not to keep him from teasing when the other dog is approaching him (I can keep him from going to the other dog, I can not keep the other dog from coming towards him without employing more violent methods and body blocking which seems uncalled for in this situation)

It's common for neutered dogs to love females, especially females in heat. Our old neutered Jack Russell, Tully would occasionally tie with our intact female Scamper. Although Scamper had a number of litters with other "men", Tully was always her partner of choice lol.

Don't work him around a bitch in heat, unless you want him to learn to ignore you. Keep him on a long line if he has to be around these bitches and if he tries to mount them, correct with a pulse on the leash and reward when he looks at you. Make simple responsiveness and politeness your first goal.

People who keep intact bitches for no other reason than that they are too cheap or lazy to have them spayed are eejits. I think that there are subsidies in some areas that help low income folks spay their dogs. Maybe you could give some of your neighbors a not so subtle hint on the cleanliness and safety not to mention civic responsibility that spaying their females would promote.

Edited by Margaret Wheeler (09/30/2010 02:11 PM)
Edit reason: too quick on the post key

You can train him to be non-reactive to females in heat.

I have had an intact male of mine ignore a receptive female when I was present because I had corrected him a *few* times for obnoxious lurking.

I have also heard of it happening with other people with their stud dogs: the male showed no interest in the female, they were not separated, he mated with her as soon as his people were out of sight. That was caused/trained by taking the female/male away when the male showed any interest in the female.

I'd make really sure first before dropping those hints that cheapness and laziness were the only reasons for the intact female.

The black-and-white "early spaying is a win-win" world of many vets, orgs, and owners, citing the mammary-tumor and oops-litters reasons (both of which have compelling truth to them, IMO), is often not the same world as that of many responsible owners of dogs.

It's true that the owner described (whose dog's only exercise is running around a tree that she's tied to while the owner sits in the shade) may not fall into the category of owners who are very educated about the other side of the health coin about early (or even any) spaying and whose dogs are absolutely 100% protected from accidental matings.

But there is another side to that coin.

With my shelter experience and sad knowledge of throwaway-dog, BYB, and oops-litter idiocy, and the resulting millions of dogs who enter shelters every year in this country, more than half of them never to leave alive, I find it difficult to see past those numbers and acknowledge that there are potential true, serious, and life-long negative effects to spaying (particularly early spaying), too.

But there are.

Here's one recent thread: http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/272368/page/0/fpart/1

Here's one of many studies exploring the other side of that health coin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2805875/

None of this means (to me) that pet dogs whose owners are not 100% careful and responsible about the dog's containment and protection against pregnancy and committed to lifelong health care have any excuse for having an intact female, though. For me, there isn't much that trumps 100% protection from pregnancy (pregnancy outside serious, ethical, responsible breeding programs).


And ... stepping back off my soapbox.

True, Connie. I'm really getting crotchety!

I'm not an early spay freak either, but I'll admit that after all my years in dogs most people are guilty until proven innocent when it comes to reproductive responsibility for their pets.

Truth be told I think that way too many people who claim to be breeders leave way too many second rate dogs intact as well.

In this case.....the woman DOES want to get her dog fixed as this point (I gave her the "scary lecture" about pyometra). She isn't capable of protecting her dog while she's in heat and can't really recognize that she's IN heat. She the sort that's "well I told her she's not allowed to get pregnant, she's a good dog she'll listen to me" *eye roll*

I'm helping her set the dog's spay up. Our low cost clinic around here does pit bulls for $50. The dog is a little over a year old and I'm guessing this is her second heat from what the owner told me (I asked if there was another time she was peeing a lot and was super friendly with their male fixed chihuahua)

 Quote: jamie craig

In this case.....the woman DOES want to get her dog fixed as this point (I gave her the "scary lecture" about pyometra). She isn't capable of protecting her dog while she's in heat and can't really recognize that she's IN heat. She the sort that's "well I told her she's not allowed to get pregnant, she's a good dog she'll listen to me" *eye roll*

I'm helping her set the dog's spay up. ....

Yeah, I felt weird starting my rant partly based on this owner, who, it was apparent, didn't fall into the category of owners who might have a very good reason for maintaining intact adults.

Good for you that you are letting her know that her dog is really not a "good" girl and is actually the type of slut who will be

 Quote: jamie craig

.... so receptive she practically backed up under him

PS
Seriously, good job.

 Quote: jamie craig

She the sort that's "well I told her she's not allowed to get pregnant, she's a good dog she'll listen to me" *eye roll*

All I can say is, I hope this woman doesn't have a teenage daughter.

Great of you to help her get the spay set up. Certainly the best choice for this dog...