Okay my dog is a she GSD and is 26 months. I am completing year 1 of schutzhund with her and am currently on the pillow tug and learning the blinds. Just to give you a background.

I have another female (husky) and the two in the past, have had a few nasty arguements. Now fixed.I gave a level 11..and that was that!

My issue is this. There are 2 approaches generally recomended for a dog aggressive dog.

1. is to desensitize with motivation and treats etc..when passing the other dog.

2. Is to give a level 10 correction.....which I do...as she is on a prong. Nothing happens except I see when she is so out of control she has re-directed aggression again me! Yesterday I almost wore a new 'mark' on my arm/leg.

I want to do my BH with her and she seems ok(although never off leash) with other larger dogs, but I will never pass it if she acts like such a moron. Generally though, it is the 'ankle biter dogs' that have her foaming at the mouth.

Is this correctable? If so, what correction is advised for this?

Thanks

Whichever approach you use, distance between your dog and the other dog is an important factor to pay attention to. It's good to start at a distance where she is aware of the other dog but still able to function, and start working with her at that point. Over time, gradually decrease the distance in small increments until she can maintain her composure at close range. Make sure you're using plenty of positive reinforcement for her attention and responsiveness to commands.

The distance depends on the dog. Some dogs only need to see another dog on the horizon before they start going nutso. Others can maintain pretty well at 50 feet, or 30, or even 10. To figure out your dog's distance, just watch her body language when you see another dog. Don't wait for her to start going crazy before you start working her. Start working her the moment you see her posture change; you might see her ears come forward, her head come up, her tail stiffen, her gait and posture become stiff. That's when you want to work her through her obedience commands without moving any closer to the other dog. Note the distance you are working at, and keep working her at that distance repeatedly over the course of days or weeks until you can see that it is easy for her to maintain. She might even begin looking at you when she sees another dog at that distance. At that point, decrease the distance by a couple of feet and work her at that distance until it becomes easy, and so on. If at any time you are caught by surprise and there is a dog closer to her than she can handle, just increase the distance until she can pay attention to you and work her through some obedience at that distance.

Okay that is good to know about the distances.

I tried to fuss with her, but she was so busy lunging, hair up, ears erect and nashing her teeth, she could not hear me yelling "fuss"...or "sitz"....but I got her into a platz by stamping on her leather leash up close with pinch.

I give a verbal warning on approaching other dogs..perhaps this is my downfall?

So positive motivation is the best appraoch. I have corrected too severly in the past?

Thank you.

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I give a verbal warning on approaching other dogs..perhaps this is my downfall?

... and your girl hears 'ALERT! GO FOR HIM! CRUSH HIM! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> '

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So positive motivation is the best appraoch. I have corrected too severly in the past?

Maybe too late. When my dog is already in alert I woudn't hurry towards another dog. I prefer starting any OB issue to correct him so he immediately goes into the command. This way the dog becomes busy with doing the command before getting 'loaded' because of the other dog.
For us, something similar to Lisa's approach was best. This means training under strong distraction in the end. We also trained about 2 weeks daily together with a GSD and occasionally with a Dobe, a Lab, and a small poodle. It helped a lot for the BH, when we had not a single problem, despite my dog's pair was a Rott that he doesn't like.

quote: I give a verbal warning on approaching other dogs..perhaps this is my downfall?

... and your girl hears 'ALERT! GO FOR HIM! CRUSH HIM! ' Bingo. You're cueing the behavior.


So positive motivation is the best appraoch. I have corrected too severly in the past? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're focusing on his aggressive display behavior. One reason that punishing the aggressive behavior while it is occurring tends to fail is that the dog is in a highly aroused state and is not capable of recieving the information you are attempting to communicate. Oftentimes, the prong corrections only increase the dog's level of arousal, when what you want to do is decrease it.

What I'm saying is, don't wait until your dog is in full blown foaming at the mouth mode and then try to punish the behavior with collar corrections or try and get obedience out of him when he isn't capable of giving it.

Instead, treat the presence of other dogs as a distraction and start working him in obedience at a level that he can function at. Start easy, where he knows there is another dog way over there, but isn't in agro mode. You're not rewarding or punishing the aggression, you're rewarding obedience under light distraction. Don't decrease the distance that you're working at until after several repetitions at that distance you can see that he is relaxing and not concerned about that other dog over there. When you do decrease the distance, do so in a small enough increment that it's not a huge change all at once. It should be harder for the dog (you'll see him less relaxed and more concerned that there is a dog over there) but it should be doable for him (he should be able to focus on you and obey commands).

The positive motivation/reinforcement comes into the picture in that you will be enthusiastically rewarding him for correct responses, just as you would if you were working on his obedience under any other conditions.

My Malinois is extremely animal aggressive....so bad that she has gone through nearly 2 dozen fence boards over the past year and a half...trying to get to animals passing by....just this mornig she broke another board going after a cat.

When we are on walks I tend to be more alert to other animals than she is.....when we see one (with enough distance) we keep going...I do not give her a chance to take it any further....she may bark a couple of times and try to lunge....but as soon as that happens....BAM strong correction and we continue....if she is just alert no big deal, we keep on our way.

Alternatively if we are rather close (30 feet or so) or she alerts to the animal before I do, and she is going nuts....again we keep on our way........if she is going completely nuts I will give her an off command and take her down hard if she chooses to ignore it. I will actually give her a choke if she chooses to continue the aggression....she then understands that if she is social (polite) she will be able to breath....if not....she may have to wait a few seconds for that next breath. Regardless, she knows I am in control and her behavior will not be tolerated. Often, as soon as I see the body language that would suggest she wants to go after the animal I will immediately scold her.......it is okay to be alert...but there is that fine line she has to walk...if she even tilts the slightest bit over it.........foey....foey.....etc

Off leash I usually can't catch her before she is off to the races.....an E-collar is a great start for this....but you have to be quick...and it has to be set pretty high.

Recently (past 4 months or so) we have gone to diversionary tactics....and they seem to work. I keep her mind off of the other animals when she sees them. The true test came this past Wednesday....we were working aggression training and some young children decided they wanted to come watch.....and brought their dog (black lab) and it was not on a leash. The kids just showed up.....we were in a back yard, fenced in.....and suddenly there they were...with the dog. I had just taken Nika off a bite and put her in a down.....I saw the kids....the dog.....Nika saw the dog......body language showed she was ready to go after this dog.....at that point I told the decoy to assault me.....immediate distraction....one that took presidence (sp) over the dog........at that point she forgot all about the dog and went after the decoy. The kids left shortly there after because we stopped training (waiting for them to leave).

Bottom line....each dog responds differently to situations involving other animals. It is likely that my dog will always show signs of aggression to other animals...how I repond is the key......I have to be vigilant at all times...reading her every body movement....if she is alert but calm.....praise and praise alike.....if she is alert but tilting towards aggression....scold and scold (depends on her body language) alike.....if she is actually aggressing.....quick corrections with verbal command......if she is aggressing out of control.....HARD and STRONG CORRECTION with verbal command......alternatviely I will add in distractions from the moment she alerts.......this is just my use of force continuum when it comes to my dog and her aggression towards other animals....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Hope you can pick something out and use it with your dog. Good luck.

That is super advice.

Thank you.

I will keep you posted after our next walk.

Drew Corry wrote: an E-collar is a great start for this....but you have to be quick...and it has to be set pretty high.

LC: I'd recommend against using an Ecollar for this behavior in this fashion. You can get a couple of results. It works perfectly – Very rare. It works OK with some side effects. One side effect is that the dog won't leave your side again. This usually takes quite some time to fix. Another side effect is that the dog becomes even more aggressive but has learned to stop the physical display, the lunging and growling that portend the aggression. So the dog goes from calm to murder without warning. Sometimes dogs learn to power through the discomfort of the Ecollar. Then you'll find that you've created an even bigger monster.

LC: If you'd like to stop this behavior quickly without any of these side effects use an Ecollar as described in this post.

http://www.leerburg.com/ubb//ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=000028#000001

If this link doesn’t work, do a search for the word “crittering” under the member number 131.

Hi Colleen, I think that Lisa's post was excellent advice. The dog will sense your tension regarding the other dog. You may be adding tension to the lead, giving a verbal alert, or in some imperceptable way cueing the dog. Here is a simple exercise that may help. Set her up for failure. With another handler and dog as distraction, heel into the area. Go to a sit and wait. When your dog looses eye contact with you and glances to the other dog, sharply turn right, walk fast and apply an automatic correction. She should have been paying more attention! Ask her "What happened?" and then when she is heeling properly, and paying attention with eye contact, praise her. This is proactive, not reactive. This way, you are correcting before aggression, at the point where she loses her attention to you. The level of correction need not be an "11", after all, she just lost attention. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />