Quote: connie sutherland

Nothing to do with any list, but we all know, right, that kibble has significant carbs? Period?

As far as I know, the kibble process still requires starch.

Show me a kibble; I'll show you the starch.

So a no-grain food (if it's kibble) is going to have something else to make up for it, like maybe white potato.

If you are choosing kibble, it's a matter of choosing among carbs, and choosing relative proportion of carbs.

The category "no grain," in fact, has come to mean just about nothing. A "no grain" food can have more carbs than meat if we add up the white potato, pea flour, ground peas, tapioca, and tomato pomace (and of course there are more).

Actually, what I'm saying is that the old lists have lost a ton of their use unless we actually read the ingredient list. At least IMHO.



PS
WDJ discusses their lists intelligently and coherently, I think.

Connie, would YOU please write a book on canine nutrition? I learn more from you than anyone else, and what you say sticks in my brain.

 Quote: phaedra rieff

I can't double check this tight now because I am getting ready for work, but- I am fairly certain that California Natural USED to be a decent food, bu wa recently taken over by P&G or someone of that calibre. I also believe that since the take over the formula has changed. No shower or coffee so don't quote me.

Just wanted to throw my two cents out there on California Natural and PG because my famlies buisness makes some premixes and anti-oxidants for some of there petfoods. To my knowledge nothing has changed with there formulas atleast to what we supply them with. I will also say that while I'm a raw feeder I have met with several representatives from these companies and really feel that they are trying to provide dogs with good nutrition and not just trying to put words like natural on there packaging for a selling point. I can also tell you that both companies have very strict food safety procedures something the industry as a whole is becoming more aware of after the horrible recalls in the past. I could talk alot about all the food safety programs cus thats my job but I wont bore everyoneNo kibble is ever going to be as healthy as a raw diet, but like we all know the avrage owner dosen't know much about dogs let alone raw feeding so in my opinion these companies do have there place.

I like to read this, Brent, because for a loooong time I considered the Natura line to be almost bulletproof as far as recommending the products went. I was saddened about the acquisition by P&G.

We were a little worried at first too because we had/have such a good relationship with Natura they really helped our company grow in alot of areas. Personally I think that PG saw what Natura had to offer and just wanted a piece of the pie not much if anything I know of has changed with products or company structure really.

Hopefully it will stay that way. Although I feed my dogs raw my cat is on Innova (Natura)& has been with great results for 7+ years. (she won't eat raw or even canned food).

She was recently given some lesser quality food, while my son was away for a week (he has Sami now) & the friends feeding her ran out of her food & substituted some that they feed their cats & she ended up with a $227 vet bill. She was sctatching her face raw to the point of infection. She is now back on her regular food & is getting back to normal & no more scratching. Obviously there was something that didn't agree with her in that food. I didn't even want to know what brand it was.

Next time he goes away..she will come back here like she usually does. This was a last minute trip & he thought there was enough food for the week.

I have also recommended Natura foods, with confidence in quality, to friends & clients with great results for their pets.

 Quote: Lisa Bernier

Can someone also tell me how many carbs are in TOTW because on their website I couldn't find that info, thanks

I think Connie quoted for some of the other formulas, but I was wondering if anyone knows the carbs for Sierra Lamb?

My dog, who is super sensitive stomach dude , and has had extreme reactions to chicken from multiple forms (different kibbles, treats, and cooked, though I haven't tried raw) in very small amounts, does AMAZING on this food. All the other TOTW formulas except for the fish have chicken in them, so I'm hoping he'll be ok with the lamb for a while yet! His coat had an amazing improvement in just a week, and he looks great overall. I also actually like that it is lower in calories, because I use it for training and meals.

Here are the rest of the stats for anyone interested (it is also a suitable kibble for LB pups due to Ca and Phos levels)

Protein: 25% Fat: 15%
Calcium: 1.6%, as-fed; Phosphorus: 1.0%, as-fed
Calories: 3,611 kcal/kg (338 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy
Available in 5lb, 15lb and 30lb bags.

Ingredients
Lamb, lamb meal, sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, canola oil, potato protein, roasted lamb, tomato pomace, natural flavor, salt, choline chloride, mixed tocopherols (a natural preservative and source of vitamin E) dried chicory root, taurine, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, dried fermentation products of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Because I've been traveling frequently over the holidays, Danke is currently on a kibble rotation of Innova and Orijen.
Until we get the cat switched to raw, they'll probably both be rotating through Innova, Orijen and BeforeGrain kibbles.

TOTW is definitely another I would add to that mix, although I have to go a bit further to purchase it than I do the others.

I feed Orijen Fish mixed with Acana Wild Prairie. I always feed at least 2 kibble varieties in per meal. I cycle through TOTW and Fromm Surf & Turf with every other 15 lb bag I buy.

This is just something I've made up. I have no idea if it's beneficial, but my pup stays slim and healthy. He gets compliments on his shiny black coat, but that may be more from the fish oil and vit E supplements than the food.

With regard to the OP...

Is it possible the dog has hit six months and simply needs fewer meals a day?

Usually around this time, people are having to reduce from three a day, to two a day, because the dog is no longer developing enough of an appetite between meals.

Shadow will be 6 months at the end of this month. She has been back to normal, snows gone for now. I have always fed her 2 times a day(morning and early evening).She has never been interested when I gave her anything for noon. I do give her water in the day. I believe she will be ready to switch from her puppy food. She weighs 32 lbs today. As always I appreciate any input. Thanks Lisa

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