yes the only thing they say they do not like about raw diets is the parasites. Since Cody has one, they want the raw diet to stop. The other reason to stop the raw diet is that they want to try something totally different if the symptoms return to see if he has an allergy to what he has been eating. We would look for duck, and kangaroo. If he improves then, they think it is his diet. Of course I do not have a source for kangaroo or duck really, since I buy their meat at the store, so they want a processed food. So,hmmm.
the things they have mentioned he may have is acid reflex and irritable bowel syndrome. After the meds are done and we see how Cody does, I do plan on taking him in to update him. I think it is best to meet with them face to face...over the phone leaves a lot to be desired. So, then I plan on stating my position on some of the foods they have mentioned. I am going to research them and compare them to other holistic foods and raw food and let them see why I desire raw, or at the least a home cooked diet, and then healthy holistic food for Cody.
When COdy threw up before we took him to the vet, he threw up about 4 times within about 8-10 pm. and he was shivering. That is why we took him to the vet.

I told the tech for the doctor today, if the parasite is not the problem, lets find out what the problem is. so, I wait.

Cody is running around like a wild man today outside- playing with his sisters and looking for lizards.

No anti vomiting meds, just meds to coat the stomach and help with acid.

Thanks so much for your input. I appreciate it. Sharon

Just curious, with the low folate and cobalamin levels, was a small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) ever mentioned?

Cody's symptoms just rang a bell with me. My GSD has had SIBO in the past and often vomited in the mornings. It was treated with flagyl (antibiotic) for about 6 weeks (I think). I do know that she had it many times, but it was undiagnosed until we ran blood work for it and EPI (which she also has, mildly). Interestingly, it was the raw diet combined with the use of probiotics that stopped the symptoms. She has been SIBO "free" for about 4.5 years now.

 Quote: Sharon Empson

they want to try something totally different if the symptoms return to see if he has an allergy to what he has been eating.

First, an allergy probably isn't going to present as vomiting bile in the morning.

Second, vomiting bile in the morning is much more likely to be a simple case of an empty stomach. Harmless. This really just sounds like an empty stomach.

 Quote: sharon empson

... The other reason to stop the raw diet is that they want to try something totally different if the symptoms return to see if he has an allergy to what he has been eating. We would look for duck, and kangaroo. If he improves then, they think it is his diet. Of course I do not have a source for kangaroo or duck really, since I buy their meat at the store, so they want a processed food. So,hmmm.

Nothing posted so far is a food-allergy pointer. Did you omit bad itching and ear infections, and possibly (but by no means universally) diarrhea or a lot of BMs?

I'm not even going to say "JMO" because I know (apparently a lot more than whoever is presenting this allergy theory to you) how canine allergies present. I also know that the only way to identify a food allergen even if the dog did exhibit allergy symptoms is with a strict elimination diet. This means a couple of ingredients the dog has never even tasted, and nothing else by mouth, for weeks. "Novel" to the dog is highly individual, because it depends 100% of what THIS DOG has and has not eaten. For example, as exotic as duck and kangaroo sound, neither one is suitable if this individual dog has eaten it in the past. Conversely, there may well be a protein that's novel to him but not exotic at all.

Recommending "duck or kangaroo" without ascertaining the dog's personal dietary history says "no idea how an elimination diet actually works" to me.

Be careful, because many duck "RX" foods contain potato. This renders the food unsuitable (useless) as an elimination diet too, if the dog has ever eaten potato.

At this point, and here I have to add "JMO," I would be extremely skeptical of this vet's nutrition education.


eta
Lots of GP vets have little or no allergy (or nutrition) background. They really are specialties, as they need to be. My personal annoyance comes not from that, but from prescribing protocol anyway, without the knowledge/experience.

JMO.

 Quote: melissa hoyer

Just curious, with the low folate and cobalamin levels, was a small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) ever mentioned?

Cody's symptoms just rang a bell with me. My GSD has had SIBO in the past and often vomited in the mornings. It was treated with flagyl (antibiotic) for about 6 weeks (I think). I do know that she had it many times, but it was undiagnosed until we ran blood work for it and EPI (which she also has, mildly). Interestingly, it was the raw diet combined with the use of probiotics that stopped the symptoms. She has been SIBO "free" for about 4.5 years now.

Yes, it came up several times in another thread (a very good reason for keeping all this topic in one thread; every time a new one is started, no one has any of the past info to review ).


Part of post from the "Intestinal Disturbance" thread:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dpaninsf.html
Scroll to 'Pancreatic insufficiency with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)" and "Chronic Diarrhea in German Shepherd.' "

No Cody has no itching no ear problems or diarrhea.
They believe that if he eats something he has never eaten before and he improves his digestion his problem may be a food allergy. That is what they want to do with the duck or kangaroo, an elimination diet. which I think is impossible because I would have to buy a processed dog food with those ingredients in them and they would have other ingredients in there that would nulify the test.
They did ask me what he has eaten and I gave them the list. He has had chicken, turkey, pork, salmon, buffalo, tuna, beef, hmm right now I can't think of any others..oh, rabbit, goat, lamb. (he did not like lamb) Cody has never eaten potatoe.

I was reading online today that most vets have only about 3-5 hours training in nutrition. This is limited exposure compared to all the time they study animal illnesses. it reminds me of doctors. They are trained to treat illness, some have limited training in prevention and nutrition.
Oh, I am skeptical of their training in nutrition. It has been very sad for me to loose my holistic vet who passed away suddenly. He was willing to research with me and be a partner with me in finding out what would be best for my pups. He was always willing to share what he knew and listen to any thing I may have found out. But that is over, he was the only vet at his practice and now they are closed down. Man!
well in about a week we will meet and get this all worked out I hope. I want to be prepared that is why I am doing research.
thanks connie

 Quote: Sharon Empson

I am going to research them and compare them to other holistic foods and raw food and let them see why I desire raw, or at the least a home cooked diet, and then healthy holistic food for Cody.

You may want to get the new (issue before last) WDJ list of so-called holistic foods that miss the mark, graded as to how much or how little they miss it by.

 Quote: Sharon Empson

No Cody has no itching no ear problems or diarrhea.
They believe that if he eats something he has never eaten before and he improves his digestion his problem may be a food allergy. That is what they want to do with the duck or kangaroo, an elimination diet. which I think is impossible because I would have to buy a processed dog food with those ingredients in them and they would have other ingredients in there that would nulify the test.
They did ask me what he has eaten and I gave them the list. He has had chicken, turkey, pork, salmon, buffalo, tuna, beef, hmm right now I can't think of any others..oh, rabbit, goat, lamb. (he did not like lamb) Cody has never eaten potatoe.

I was reading online today that most vets have only about 3-5 hours training in nutrition. This is limited exposure compared to all the time they study animal illnesses. it reminds me of doctors. They are trained to treat illness, some have limited training in prevention and nutrition.
Oh, I am skeptical of their training in nutrition. It has been very sad for me to loose my holistic vet who passed away suddenly. He was willing to research with me and be a partner with me in finding out what would be best for my pups. He was always willing to share what he knew and listen to any thing I may have found out. But that is over, he was the only vet at his practice and now they are closed down. Man!
well in about a week we will meet and get this all worked out I hope. I want to be prepared that is why I am doing research.
thanks connie

Oh, man .... beyond frustrating to deal with!

I sure will be interested in hearing how he does off the med. I would give him bland food in very small frequent meals for several days after stopping the med. JMO!

Connie, your wealth of knowledge is amazing and a very real asset to this forum. You could TEACH at a vet school for crying out loud and the students would certainly be better doctors for having learned nutrition/allergies, etc... from you.

And I know - you are not a medical professional and don't offer advice as one.

He has had chicken, turkey, pork, salmon, buffalo, tuna, beef, hmm right now I can't think of any others..oh, rabbit, goat, lamb. (he did not like lamb) Cody has never eaten potatoe.


Sweet potato too? (BTW, I don't feed rabbit or goat because I reserve them for "novel" proteins.)


I have to go back, though, and say that no allergy symptoms have yet been mentioned.

 Quote: sharon empson

No Cody has no itching no ear problems

" The primary symptom is itchy skin affecting primarily the face, feet, ears, forelegs, armpits and the area around the anus. Symptoms may also include chronic or recurrent ear infections, hair loss, excessive scratching, hot spots, and skin infections that respond to antibiotics but reoccur after antibiotics are discontinued. There is evidence that dogs with food allergies may sometimes have an increased incidence of bowel movements. One study showed that non-allergic dogs have around 1.5 bowel movements per day where some dogs with food allergies may have 3 or more per day.

It is difficult to distinguish an animal suffering from food allergies from an animal suffering from atopy or other allergies based on physical signs. However, there are a few signs that increase the suspicion that food allergies may be present. One of these, is a dog with recurrent ear problems, particularly yeast infections. Another, is a very young dog with moderate or severe skin problems. A third tip off, is if a dog suffers from allergies year-round or if the symptoms begin in the winter. And the final clue, is a dog that has very itchy skin but does not respond to steroid treatment."

Doctors Foster & Smith at http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2&aid=143



eta
Why, thank you, Barbara.