I have been watching a series of programmes about the above title, and last night featured a piece about a military kennel in Kaiserbruch, where the dog of choice for the Austrian military is the Rott, the GSD and Belgium Shepherd, (Malinois??)

What I know about this work you could fit on a pin head, the guy they were interviewing was called Otto Koppitsch, and the dogs that demonstrated the result of the training all looked exceptionally happy, super smart dogs, the Malinois were so sparky and the reaction to the handlers was mind blowing! They didn't show much of the Rotts doing the sleeve work, but the GSD's and the Belgiums speed and alacrity actually made me laugh out loud!

The other breed featured was the Maremma and showed a working farm in northern New York State, where the family keep Alpaca and goats. The Farmer, (or possibly the narrator) said that the Maremma needs very little training, as the breed, through the generations, has developed an instinct whereby the pups, from as little as 3 weeks old, have learned to watch and mimic the Mother in her 'patrolling the line' therefore requiring little input from the owner.

This got me wondering, is that wishful thinking on the part of the owner, or are some breeds' blue prints so indelible, they don't actually need training to do the job they were bred for?

Is this a tv program, what channel is it on? Sharon

It is on channel 5 in the UK, but you can get it up on the web if you google 'Extraordinary Dogs'

 Quote: tracey holden

This got me wondering, is that wishful thinking on the part of the owner, or are some breeds' blue prints so indelible, they don't actually need training to do the job they were bred for?

The guardian breeds are pretty instinctual in their work. They do need a bit of basic work to ensure that they can be handled by people when needed, and of course they need some supervision as they are growing up to ensure the young dog don't get too rough with the stock (young dog playfulness). But everything else is pretty much instinctual.

Well bred Border Collies are also pretty instinctual in their work. Scroll down the Denise Wall wall video series on "Starting May" at Little Hats Yes they need guidance and and need to be set up for success, but often if you take a pup out on dog broke stock, they will often circle and gather them to the handler. All by instinct. Now, they do need practice and training, to perfect those skills, but what you're doing is honing the inbred instinct.

Livestock guardians do most of their work with flocks through instinct, but to live with humans they require quite a bit of obedience training. Because most were bred to work independent of humans they are not always the easiest dogs to train.

There are quite a few very interesting threads here about LSGD's. They are very different from your average dog.

My previous dog was a Texas Lacy Game Dog (aka Texas Blue Lacy). They were/are bred for stock herding, hog dogs, and blood trailing. While any ONE dog might be trained for any THING, some lines are naturally better at one or the other. Ranger was from a known 'blood trailing' line. While he loved baying hogs, he EXCELLED at blood trailing, and could have cared less about herding cattle -- LOL! At our Lacy Play Days, he was exposed to it all.

I only encouraged him on the blood trailing -- I never 'trained' him. He ran less than a dozen trails spread out over 7 months before he passed for his UBT1 title. He RAN that 1/4 mile track in less than 20 minutes off leash with only one redirect. I don't take credit for 'training' him at all -- it was completely natural.

Here are the qualifications for blood-trailing: http://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/images/pdfs/ubtte2010.doc

We have too many Collie crosses where I live in Norfolk who end up in rescue or where the pups have flooded the market from irresponsible breeding that are not getting anything like the mental or physical stimulation they need, I knew a family in our village who were given a young collie as a rehomer, who whilst they were very academic 'middle class' people, had not a clue what the dog needed, and he used to escape through the narrow window they left open for him and took himself off for the excersise he needed, coming back HOURS later, mercifully unscathed, when he went to join his ancestors in the big meadow in the sky, they almost seemed relieved! I was very thankful they didn't replace him!