Quote: Michael Bennett

How old is your daughter? Does she live with you?

What kind of a question is that?!

I am a brand new member in this forum, have no idea who you are nor you me.

I am not looking to step on anyone's forum toes and get in a pissing match.

I am not interested in your suggestion of getting her a beagle for PP and tried to put it politely. Please let it go.

I am interested in (other folks) perception of having a dog evaluated for finishing as a PP dog by a professional. The DVD guy spooked me off the idea....but he made some good points. If I DO NOT seek to have the dog PP evaluated and trained as a PP dog, as suggested, how do I go about training the dog to bark vociferously upon command? Are there any DVD explaining how one developed that in a dog? Assuming no professional PP training as explained, does the puppy need all the rag, sleeve, bite puppy work....or just obedience?

That's what I'm after....not a soapbox about rescue dogs, beagles and forum hurt toes. Once I get some help from

Some others I will be long gone from the forum...I just need some clarification from what I was told, and some training advice resources to successfully get done what we are looking for.

I'm stepping in here until Will returns to the thread, because I'm afraid that maybe the fact that this thread in in "General Dog Conversation" may have been misleading.

Please ... unless you are experienced in protection training, do not post advice in protection-training threads. This is true of all protection threads, always, and not at all meant to make anyone upset or embarrassed. (It applies to me too. ) It's a "rule" of long standing, but of course now and then we repeat it for newer folks.


Chal, I believe there is simply a small mis-communication.


You may know of Will's preeminence in the field. You will find the stickies he directed you to to be extremely informative. And I know he will check back.

 Quote: Chal Curtis

 Quote: Michael Bennett

How old is your daughter? Does she live with you?

What kind of a question is that?!

I am a brand new member in this forum, have no idea who you are nor you me.

I am not looking to step on anyone's forum toes and get in a pissing match.

I am not interested in your suggestion of getting her a beagle for PP and tried to put it politely. Please let it go.

I am interested in (other folks) perception of having a dog evaluated for finishing as a PP dog by a professional. The DVD guy spooked me off the idea....but he made some good points. If I DO NOT seek to have the dog PP evaluated and trained as a PP dog, as suggested, how do I go about training the dog to bark vociferously upon command? Are there any DVD explaining how one developed that in a dog? Assuming no professional PP training as explained, does the puppy need all the rag, sleeve, bite puppy work....or just obedience?

That's what I'm after....not a soapbox about rescue dogs, beagles and forum hurt toes. Once I get some help from

Sorry, the way I read your post was I thought you agreed with the trainer that you didn't need a PPD and were looking for alternatives.

As far as training the dog just to bark, there is a good article on this site describing how to do the very thing you are looking for.

http://leerburg.com/bark.htm

There is even a section covering doing only barking training with dogs for who have the genes for bite work.

 Quote:

Bottom line...I want to have the deterrent factor, which I do. I want to be able to give a command and have the dog bark like heck until told to stop. Is bite training necessary only for sport, but not for a dog that is not professionally trained in PP, as this expert recommends.

A dog does not have to be trained to bite in order to train a good on and off alert bite. I have done this with a tug and a back tied dog.

This will act as a deterrent and will be effective in a lot of cases. If the bad person breaks thru the barking the dog may or may not stand his/her ground, but probably will not.

I train in personal protection and most of my dogs have different levels of personal protection training on them. Some are the real thing some are more sport based.

If bite training is necessary or not really depends on what you want, the dog, and your level of commitment.

Ok, thanks for the additional input, links and clarifications. I have read it all.

Now I am really confused, however.

Do I want a PP dog for my daughter?...Yes, I think I do.
Do we have the resources and commitment to get it done? Yes we do.
Is a deterrent good enough? It might be...Still evaluating.
Barking on command...i'm Envisioning a scenario where she is out on a walk, bad guy approaches. DDR GSD dog is a deterrent visually, but bad guy is bold. Daughter gives command to make GSD COME ALIVE! That is what I mean about barking on command...not necessarily just the doorbell scenario.

In reading more of what is on this web, I guess there are pro PP camps and just deterrent dog camps. I really want to get what is best for my daughter. I realize a true PP dog needs the aptitude, and a few years on. That is why we are doing our homework now, for a suitable dog in 2 to 3 years.

Betty, I am going to look at your web. I agree with your comment that it depends what I want. However, what I thought I wanted has been explained to me by the DVD guy, and some of these recommended threads explains causes me some pause and hesitation. If someone (unlikely) attacks my daughter, yes, I want that guy' s arm ripped to shreds while my daughter seeks help. But, I don't want a walking lawsuit for her or me when a ferocious intimidating bark by an imposing GSD will work from a practical matter in 99% of the cases.

I need to decide, and train accordingly, I guess.

You can teach a dog to alert on command. But that said, if you really feel that you need more then that, then you need to take it a step further in training.

You need to clearly understand that having a dog that will actually follow thru beyond an alert barking...IS a liability. It is also something not to be taken lightly.

I don't know how old your daughter is or will be when this so-called prospect dog will be trained...but I would not be allowing any young person, & by that I mean under the LEGAL age & most likely then some, to be essentially walking around with what can amount to a loaded gun. You need to consider all this very carefully.

IT IS NOT A GAME.

99% of the people around do not have what it takes to live with a dog that is capable of these things. They don't just casually sit on your door step, sit on the couch or even be in the same room with visitors when they come over. WAY TOO RISKY. Not sure if this is the kind of lifestle that you have in mind.

Just some thoughts.

It is also very possible that your dog could be euthanized as a "vicious dog" after "ripping someone's arm to shreds."

Thanks Anne and Tabitha. Yes, I understand the complexities and that is why I modified my perceptions of a professionally trained PP dog, as mentioned. The info and opinions are varied from my research and I know professional pride is in play, and I don't want any part of that.

Poor choice of words on the arm ripping comment. I was frustrated by all the divergences of philosophies I am finding in my research and it came out poorly.

I understand the OUT component, and if we decide in the future to evaluate for competency and have the dog PP trained professionally, that will be fundamental

I am trying to decide how best to do the puppy portion before that day of decision regarding PP; if we go that way. Obedience, positive, most likely a component of clicker training will be done to total satisfaction by us. I just need to get my head around all the puppy sleeve, tug, wedge work I see done in prey drive and know if that is necessary if we decide to just have a well behaved, socialized deterrent, but barks like heck upon command. That is where I need input from the heavyweights, if they are willing to share their perspectives, in addition to what I have received. I like a few sources of confirmation before I form a final conclusion. Thanks for everyone's interest and input into our request for help.

I will also add that there are only A HANDFULL of PROFESSIONAL PPD trainers that are out there that are REPUTABLE.

With the exception of a few, they will take you $$ & leave you with what you THINK is a PPD that is going to run away from trouble faster then you will.

Choose wisely.